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Normal Topic Exhaustion, knockout, or what? (Read 2720 times)
ghost of ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #15 - Oct 14th, 2010 at 11:15pm
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We dropped a few posts there with the server change over regarding the blood test.
It takes a fair bit to K.O. a dog and some sort of trauma should have been visible around the head - bruising etc if that was the case.
  
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Aunty
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #16 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 3:30pm
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Hi Ethos

further to this topic have made further investigations, both with Massey whom I understand have reasearched this, vis two seperate vet sources.

There is currently a swaying towards trichenella ( spelling!) as a likely suspect, for what has unofficially been labelled 'northland pig hunting disease '

have you any thoughts on this. I understand in humans its a fairly serious condition. could it manifest itself in the way i have explained, is there cures. my question on whether drontal would fix it was laughed at lol

cheers again mate
  

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ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #17 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 5:59pm
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I'll see what I can dig up for you Aunty.
Off the top of my head , I wouldnt have laughed off the drontal - although that particular wormer might not kill the parasite in muscle, other wormers  like fenbendazole (most often seen as a drench)might be able to.
In people the symptoms are fever, muscle pain, weakness and swelling, Ill see what i can track down on signs in dogs- its not something Ive diagnosed before.
The american literature might be a good place for me to start, trichenalla can infect bears and wolves I think.
  
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ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #18 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 6:14pm
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Ok clinical signs of trichinella in dogs: vomiting, lethargy, diarhoea.
may also develop fever, reluctance to move, weakness, swelling.
Uncommon in dogs.

Diagnosed by seeing larvae in blood, or on muscle biopsy - the signs seen are caused by the larval stage encysting in muscle tissue as Im sure you know (the same thing can happen to people eating undercooked pork).

Treatment can be given in the form of fenbendazole or mebendazole but the problem is usually self limiting.

I wouldnt be convinced trichinella is causing this at this point Aunty, but its worth considering.


  
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Aunty
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #19 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 6:26pm
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thanks mate

heres a copy n paste of another post on a different forum by the lady whom is investigating it quite thoroughly

****************

Hi all,
No conclusive results as yet, but I would like to take blood samples from pigs trapped in the areas known for "go slow" - if anyone could help with this would love to hear from you!
A few things have come to light however during the research so I shall share these with you all and hopefully they will be of some benefit.

Firstly, dogs that are in good health and condition appear to recover quicker and also have a lot less drastic effects from go slow. Dogs in poor condition, wormy etc. have the worse symptoms and the majority of the fatalities, also these dogs are more prone to relapses.

1) Vaccinate dogs for lepto, "leptoguard" is a separate vaccine from the 5 in one (usually "Vanguard" )that is given to pups so you need to specifically ask for the lepto shots. Importantly make sure you have annual booster shots given on time - with lepto vaccines you start with 1 shot 4 weeks apart then annual boosters, but you only have a 14 day window with the annuals so if you go 13 months or more from the last shot the dog no longer has any cover for lepto and you have to start again with the 4 weeks apart regime . Lepto is a zoonoses which means it can be transmitted to other animals and humans as well!

2) Worming, this is big, internal and external (fleas, mites, ticks, lice) parasites can play havoc with a dogs' immune system, - hookworm is a real baddy as it can be very drench resistant. Signs of hookworm infestation is a dog licking its' paws a lot and a reddish brown stain on the hair between the toes - hookworm can also be picked up off the ground by humans so if your dogs' have it and you or your kids are wandering around the dog area in barefeet you can get it too!

3) Using supplements such as "Exceed" will help keep the dogs' vitamin and energy levels at peak, particulary important is vitamin E which contributes to muscle function - muscle wasting is one aspect of "Go Slow". Note that if your feeding iron, B12, or copper supplements do NOT give these in the same meal as vitamin E as these products cancel the E out.

4) The use of "Betacel" is crucial to prevent acidosis. Acidosis in even the mildest form will slow a dog up. It has been called Heat exhaustion in the past and can also occur when dogs have a really tough day out hunting or working and are not at peak fitness or health. NEVER give your dog horse or cattle electrolytes, these animals systems work differently from a dogs' and you could end up doing more damage than good! Betacel is available online or by phone from Garrards' Horse and Hound, Cambridge and Christchurch and they deliver nationwide.

5) If your dog has been diagnosed as having "go slow" DO NOT hunt it or work it for at least 120 days. Go slow annhialates a dogs red blood cell count along with liver and kidney damage to various degrees, and it is crucial that all these systems have a chance to get back into top working order. Even if your dog is bouncing round like a million bucks, this just means its' making a great recovery. Running them again to soon only increases your chances of a relapse and permanent damage to your dog.

Hope this helps and any questions, fire away, Also anyone interested in helping with some pig trapping in the bad go slow areas please get hold of me, I do beleive the pigs themselves may hold the answers and it is only by being able to take blood samples from the pigs populations in these areas that we might get some conclusive information

****************

and another that may shed some light

*************************

Hi guys ive got a mate up north here who has now got the go slow in his culling dogs and was talking with him today about it. One / the vets know fa#k all about it. He had blood done and got another mate of our's to analyze it, It is a breakdown in the liver processing all the bad shit. And they have found meat either fresh or frozen will bring it back on strait away if the toxins are not out of the system first. He has gone to a strait diet of cheap biscuits and no fat or protein or very small amount it seems to be working at this stage. I will try and get him to e mail me all they have found out and post it up... Good luck it sounds like a real pian in the arse
  

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ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #20 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 7:11pm
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Its interesting Aunty.
Id disagree with the vet above that acidosis is the same as heat exhaustion - if youve ever seen a dog with actual heat exhaustion you will know what i mean!
reading between the lines shes covering the bases well - cover for lepto, mineral imbalance, other parasites and so on.
  
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ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #21 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 7:23pm
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Just to hark back to your blood results, Aunty, was there any rise in eosinophils?
eosinophils are type of blood cell that is sometimes elevated with parasitism (including trichinella) -its not always a reliable indicator but could be a clue.
  
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Aunty
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #22 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 7:50pm
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will have to ask my vet bro

the mistake i made was taking him for the bloods a few days later, not immediately, hence other things like hypoglycemia results were not really current

i have made the decision to give him a 12 week break and reappraise

thanks agin, the help is really appreciated
  

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ethos
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Re: Exhaustion, knockout, or what?
Reply #23 - Nov 8th, 2010 at 10:16pm
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No worries Aunty - not that Im being much help to ya, we are all still learning about this one  Smiley
  
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