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Winchester .22 subs
Oct 8th, 2021 at 12:38pm
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A last post before history consigns this Forum to the dusty archives..

Do not buy the new packaged Winchester subs that are easily recognizable by the horrible clear plastic/acrylic box they are now packaged in. The bullets are seated very poorly and are leaking powder which can be seen deposited on the surface, right to the tip of the lead projectile. They shoot inconsistently, some very loud and some not. Inaccuracy is guarantied. The bullet itself just above where the case stops is not solid. On almost every bullet/projectile its actually two bits held together loosely by an internal piece , so taking the bullet in two hands with the fingertips, you can wiggle the two pieces easily with no effort at all.

Goodness  knows what a bullet that wiggles in the air is capable of.  Good for shooting 2 rabbits a meter apart possibly Grin.

I bought two lots of 10 packets separately and the problems where the same..

I rate these bullets 0 out of 10. A total waste of time and money.

  

“We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2021 at 12:10pm
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Winchester was my once go to round, they recycled well in my 10/22 & killed well enough for me . I shot 1,000s of them, mostly at rabbits and the odd coon.However having said that I got pissed off first due to the number of shells that misfired and then at that time you couldn't buy 40gn rounds for, love nor money. All that was being offered was the 42gn rounds which I found to be very poor killers for some unknown reason . On advice from the owner of a well known Gore sports shop, I tried the rem subs . During field testing, I found them to be quite a bit dirtyer than the Winchester rounds but both recycled and killed well with a minimum of misfires & I've used nothing else since . I no longer rate the
Winchester .22 subs, the quality may have improved but somehow I doubt that ,I need a brand I can trust to get the job done .
  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #2 - Jan 26th, 2022 at 3:56pm
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Got my 16 yr old interested in shooting the .22lr - so we've been down the range a bit seeing what shoots best out of my collection of bullets.
The only newish ones I have are the Aussie Winchester 40gr subs which shot okayish out of my BRNO 1 - and a bit wider out the 2E.
Interestingly - those bullets measure .220" according to my micrometer - 1 1/4" BRNO 1.

Most of the other bullets I got in any quantity (bricks) were bought pre - 1980, and all the Winchester's I have are Aussie made ...........
Most accurate were Winchester X Superspeed 37gr Kopperklad HP with the 'H' stamp on the bum - measured .223" and put ten bullets into 3/4" @ 50 yds with the Model 1.

Next were Win Rabbit 40gr  kopperklad HV, HP, also with the 'H' on the base - 1 1/4" (.221 - .224")

Win Laser 37gr copper plated HP - 2" vertically (.223")

CAC Supersonic HP (blue box) which don't state a bullet weight - probably 40gr. I went nuts on those and bought 2,000, most of which I still have ......... and I see why. They shot a five shot 2 1/2" horizontal group.  (.224")
Hopefully they'll shoot better when they get a bit more age on them.

I got another 400 rounds of oddball stuff in 50 boxes, some of which actually shot pretty good - Fed Champion's, Randfeuerpatronen Nr6 (whatever they are), RWS (also randfeuerpatronen, which probably gives a clue) and other stuff which didn't shoot as good.......... or did, but got all shot up.

So - hopped online to see people saying Aussie-Winchester is no more (??), so I might have to go into town and see what they got - and how much I'll have to mortgage the house to stock up ..............

And that doesn't cheer me up, so I expect I'll make up a Waltz or Paco Kelly type former and have a 'fiddle' tp see if I can get some of those bullets to perform better. 

Or maybe I might get another Remington Golden bullet 525 pack which as I remember shot reasonably okay - and I never got a missfire (that I remember) - I kept the packet lid.
It's got $54.90 on that lid ............... I can probably afford that.
Could probably 'fiddle' with them too - turn them into a 'premium'  Smiley

My 'youngest' likes to shoot paper - he don't like to kill stuff .........
"You're a queer little bastard ain't ya."
"I'm gonna flog that BRNO when you snuff it."




  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #3 - Jan 26th, 2022 at 6:46pm
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Had a bad run with Winchester Whisper subsonic in the 80’s, quite a few blew up upon firing, one even blew the extractor off the bolt!
  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #4 - Jan 27th, 2022 at 8:45am
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I poked a pin down some of the hollow pointed Winchester ammo I got just to get an idea of how deep I should make the pin of my new former - and the HP on the Rabbit ammo is about half a millimetre deep ................. just deep enough to create the impression there's a hole in there, or a hollowpoint.

The Superspeed on the other hand has a proper HP of about 3mm deep - and those bullets have a lead band just in front of the case that measures .226", enough to feel some resistance when chambering them.
Probably why they shot so well.

The only other ammo I have where the bullet measures .225" is a box of Stirling subs - which I've never shot.

Anyhoo - I found an old .22 barrel I've had sitting around for yonks, I'll cut the chamber off that and make up a pin I can squeeze up in the press, or vise ............ and see what happens  Smiley

  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #5 - Jan 27th, 2022 at 7:48pm
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Cut the chamber off the barrel plus a bit of rifling, total length 60mm.
Made a pin out of a 1/4" brass bolt that slid neatly within the barrel rifling with a 1/16" diameter pin on the end 1/8" long.

I placed the cartridges in the chamber with the pin in the barrel and squeezed them together in the woodworking vise - all very quick and easy.

Discovered the Rabbit ammo did have a deeper HP that was filled with a whitish wax that had hardened so it looked a bit like teflon.
It had been copper plated over the top, the copper covering the wax.

I squeezed up some Winchester Subsonics 40gr to give a flat of .140". These shot a 10 shot group of just under 1 1/4' which included a flyer 1/4" away from the main group.
These bullets remained slightly below .225" diameter - the only ones that did,
They were also the only bullet that loosened in the case so they could rotate.
These shot a little tighter than the 'unfiddled' bullets, especially if you discount the flyer.

I gave the Winchester Rabbit ammo a slightly bigger diameter hole than it had before and gave it a slight flat, shortening the bullet by .020" (1/2mm).
These did expand to .225" and gave a 10 shot group of 1 1/2".
These shot a bit wider than yesterday.

I did the same with the CAC as I did with the Win subs, giving the bullets a 1/8" flat point. These still spread horizontally, but considerably less so than they did yesterday - 1 3/4".

I didn't do the Laser's, but I did hollowpoint some Federal Champions which gave a 1 3/8" group with a single flyer nearly 3/8" away. Take that flyer out and I had quite a tight group.
These swelled the round point is about all that happened, and curiously these were the only bullets that gave any trouble feeding from the magazine - 2 caught up.

It was a bit windy today which wouldn't have helped results, but 'fiddling' with those bullets didn't make them group any worse.
The Champion's and Win subs did the best, but all the bullets fired today would have done okay out on the hill out to 50 yards.

Was worth doing ........... I have quite a few solid point's I can now hollow point for rabbits  Smiley

I shot off sandbags, 2 up front just in front of the trigger guard and one under the butt.



« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2022 at 11:11am by SF91 »  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #6 - Jan 29th, 2022 at 2:59pm
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Made another pin to give more caverous hollowpoints - and I found my metric calipers ............ pin measures 2mm at front and 2.5mm at rear by 4mm long.
That pin wont go into a Winchester subsonic hollow - and that is a big HP.

Shot unadulterated Winchester Superspeed's @ 50 yds =19mm group.
These bullets shoot well in my BRNO 1,

Turned my Federal Champions piddly HP into a big bugger.
Unadulterated Fed's (solid point) shot 25mm group.
HP'd Fed's shot 25mm.

Unaltered (round nose solid) Randfeuerpatronen's shot a 13mm group.
HP'd Randys shot a 16mm group.
These are my new favourite bullet.

I expected some increase in accuracy by swelling the bullets up to .225" - some originals were miles away.
The reality was there wasn't much difference between the altered and unaltered bullets. Apart from the CAC which might have been me - any difference I saw was just my shooting.

Conclusion - an innacurate bullet is gonna remain innacurate no matter what you do to it - probably due to powder variations or something else from the factory.
My tool does turn round nose solids into mean looking HP's - and it does it quite quickly - and they shoot no different to how they did before ..................

Wonder where I can some more of those Randfeuerpatronen Nr 6's ????

I'll start playing with the 2E now - that shoots differently and I have it in the back of my head it likes Win Laser's ....... or something I had did.

Smiley


  
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Re: Winchester .22 subs
Reply #7 - Feb 21st, 2022 at 10:23pm
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I put another scope on the BRNO 2 (1967) and took it down the range today and it shot 5 shot groups of Winchester Laser, Winchester Superspeed and Winchester 40gr Subsonics into under 1" groups at 50 yards  Smiley
Scope was a 1960's Japanese made 4x32 with very clear glass and a nice crosshair.

I had a memory of it shooting the Laser's okay - nice to have it confirmed.
  
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