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Its not a truth until its accepted as being true. And that takes veracity. Theses suppositions and anecdotes need to be validated and proven - then they might become plausible and accepted as truth.
At least until we hear the contra argument. And so it will go on.
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.......
Somewhat agree BC; however :accepted" depends on who one is referring to. Bureaucracies, as an example, will resist change when even truth does not suit them. Regardless, within this subjects context, many are working very diligently to expose truths as well as lies. As you say; "it goes on". But, in saying that, the master of the "half truth" is the most devious and manipulative of all, and that tactic is common in history.
If you don't know it all, then you don't know what you don't know.
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Oscar
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That 'quest for truth' is one of the enjoyable parts of the forum. An argument in the classical sense where its about getting to the facts of a matter, not winning or losing, or about the people. Good fun to disagree, in good faith, not so much to be disagreeable.
I think the spirit of intent of this type of forum is intended to allow free comment from people of many temperaments, including the shy ones; hence the nicknames. On balance I think each member has a choice. The issue of politics or similar can lead to interference of several types by business and government and includes some pretty nasty stuff at times. The opposite to this is the reaction from individuals or small groups or small ngo's who do not have the same degree of influence with "the seats of power" or the media which is influenced by advertising revenue and who can feel unfairly ignored, put down, or disadvantaged within debates. Within issues as serious as some discussed on here it is a fact that "the little guys" have to put in a massive amount of time and effort in order to prove their points, usually after months of frustration in trying to extract truths from large gov't dept's or gov't allied NGO's. This effort is generally much larger than the oft glib responses from spin doctors within those gov't departments, or from others who regard such discussions as a sport. I realise there is more to it than this example, but for the "little guy" trying to get views across there is a disproportionate level of effort and stress, which sometimes will create an outburst or other reaction. Forum members should hesitate to "put the boot in" when this occurs, but it is also true that it is a hard one to judge. Other issues include the risk some might incur if their personal views are seen to be in some sort of conflict with their employer or even friends; or might compromise some unrelated business negotiation etc. The use of a nickname affords these people a degree of protection and allows opinions to be more freely contributed. In the end, the old adage "follow the money" generally holds true, therefore there will always be problems of this sort within public forums. At least this one does allow a reasonable compromise, usually, and has not sunk to the level of mob rule extant on FB (which I have never joined), even though some of the info posted on FB and copied to me from time to time does reveal a very significant measure of evolving public opinion on various matters. The worst thing on these forums are fence sitters whom I consider are treating serious issues as a sporting event. (Does'nt matter in light issues, but it's "horses for courses". The other aspect, is that within serious issues, people closely involved can, through forums actually have discussions somewhat free of their official contraints, but in this scenario the risks of identification may preclude such productive discussion. Summing up OSCAR, I don't think there is a black and white answer to your question. There is no doubt that identities or nicknames count for nothing at gov't / police level because we know for a fact that during the Concord enquiry the police had access to every post along with names, of every suspect (in their view) from this and other forums. The forum and it's structure, it's moderators etc is what it is, and I have no criticism of the present arrangements because I personally can offer no better solution.
Another good post. Level and balanced points made.
Weve had a lot of flack over the years about over moderation but if I consider two alternatives to this forum, eg Facebook, which has less moderation and more argy bargy, a playground for which we today term ''fake news'' or our esteemed competitors the ''new forum'' which simply bans all political or 1080 discussion, then I must say we sit pretty well in allowing most opinions to stay posted and have a good balance of fair discussion without total banning of hot potato topics.
“We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
Has anyone seen the latest BA on the parakeet protection. 2 days ago, during level 3, DOC staff were flown from Chch into the Lake Sumner RHA region to release more parakeets into a intermediary cage in the RHA.
Such hypocrisy. Its not ok for us to go bush. Just in case we get into trouble and need an SAR call-out. But its ok for them to go there, and fly in.
Kids who learn to Hunt and Fish, Don't learn to Steal and Deal.
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Salmoner
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #111 - May 1st, 2020 at 3:38pm
Has anyone seen the latest BA on the parakeet protection. 2 days ago, during level 3, DOC staff were flown from Chch into the Lake Sumner RHA region to release more parakeets into a intermediary cage in the RHA.
Such hypocrisy. Its not ok for us to go bush. Just in case we get into trouble and need an SAR call-out. But its ok for them to go there, and fly in.
Got a link ?
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #112 - May 2nd, 2020 at 3:31am
The young captive-bred kākāriki were due to be released several weeks ago and this has now become more urgent for the welfare of the birds and to free up much-needed space in the aviary.”
Presume these are an endangered species that have been captive raised for release into the wild. Given the circumstances it looks fair enough to me
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #114 - May 3rd, 2020 at 8:20am
Has anyone seen the latest BA on the parakeet protection. 2 days ago, during level 3, DOC staff were flown from Chch into the Lake Sumner RHA region to release more parakeets into a intermediary cage in the RHA.
Such hypocrisy. Its not ok for us to go bush. Just in case we get into trouble and need an SAR call-out. But its ok for them to go there, and fly in.
If David Clark the Health Minister was in charge of the operation i could understand your concern, he wasnt...
"Following strict covid 19 protocols" is what the article said .
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SF90
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #115 - May 3rd, 2020 at 12:15pm
I think the spirit of intent of this type of forum is intended to allow free comment from people of many temperaments, including the shy ones; hence the nicknames. On balance I think each member has a choice. The issue of politics or similar can lead to interference of several types by business and government and includes some pretty nasty stuff at times. The opposite to this is the reaction from individuals or small groups or small ngo's who do not have the same degree of influence with "the seats of power" or the media which is influenced by advertising revenue and who can feel unfairly ignored, put down, or disadvantaged within debates. Within issues as serious as some discussed on here it is a fact that "the little guys" have to put in a massive amount of time and effort in order to prove their points, usually after months of frustration in trying to extract truths from large gov't dept's or gov't allied NGO's. This effort is generally much larger than the oft glib responses from spin doctors within those gov't departments, or from others who regard such discussions as a sport. I realise there is more to it than this example, but for the "little guy" trying to get views across there is a disproportionate level of effort and stress, which sometimes will create an outburst or other reaction. Forum members should hesitate to "put the boot in" when this occurs, but it is also true that it is a hard one to judge. Other issues include the risk some might incur if their personal views are seen to be in some sort of conflict with their employer or even friends; or might compromise some unrelated business negotiation etc. The use of a nickname affords these people a degree of protection and allows opinions to be more freely contributed. In the end, the old adage "follow the money" generally holds true, therefore there will always be problems of this sort within public forums. At least this one does allow a reasonable compromise, usually, and has not sunk to the level of mob rule extant on FB (which I have never joined), even though some of the info posted on FB and copied to me from time to time does reveal a very significant measure of evolving public opinion on various matters. The worst thing on these forums are fence sitters whom I consider are treating serious issues as a sporting event. (Does'nt matter in light issues, but it's "horses for courses". The other aspect, is that within serious issues, people closely involved can, through forums actually have discussions somewhat free of their official contraints, but in this scenario the risks of identification may preclude such productive discussion. Summing up OSCAR, I don't think there is a black and white answer to your question. There is no doubt that identities or nicknames count for nothing at gov't / police level because we know for a fact that during the Concord enquiry the police had access to every post along with names, of every suspect (in their view) from this and other forums. The forum and it's structure, it's moderators etc is what it is, and I have no criticism of the present arrangements because I personally can offer no better solution.
That was well done - I like that a lot
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Oscar
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #116 - May 3rd, 2020 at 2:36pm
Ha, ha, so it was - he was only 72 when he wrote that - which means that post has stood the 'test of time', could have been written yesterday ....... like I thought it was.
I used to see those kakariki when I hunted rabbits along the edge of the Ruahine's, would see flocks of them - the only place I ever saw them.
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #118 - May 3rd, 2020 at 3:43pm
I think the spirit of intent of this type of forum is intended to allow free comment from people of many temperaments, including the shy ones; hence the nicknames. On balance I think each member has a choice. The issue of politics or similar can lead to interference of several types by business and government and includes some pretty nasty stuff at times. The opposite to this is the reaction from individuals or small groups or small ngo's who do not have the same degree of influence with "the seats of power" or the media which is influenced by advertising revenue and who can feel unfairly ignored, put down, or disadvantaged within debates. Within issues as serious as some discussed on here it is a fact that "the little guys" have to put in a massive amount of time and effort in order to prove their points, usually after months of frustration in trying to extract truths from large gov't dept's or gov't allied NGO's. This effort is generally much larger than the oft glib responses from spin doctors within those gov't departments, or from others who regard such discussions as a sport. I realise there is more to it than this example, but for the "little guy" trying to get views across there is a disproportionate level of effort and stress, which sometimes will create an outburst or other reaction. Forum members should hesitate to "put the boot in" when this occurs, but it is also true that it is a hard one to judge. Other issues include the risk some might incur if their personal views are seen to be in some sort of conflict with their employer or even friends; or might compromise some unrelated business negotiation etc. The use of a nickname affords these people a degree of protection and allows opinions to be more freely contributed. In the end, the old adage "follow the money" generally holds true, therefore there will always be problems of this sort within public forums. At least this one does allow a reasonable compromise, usually, and has not sunk to the level of mob rule extant on FB (which I have never joined), even though some of the info posted on FB and copied to me from time to time does reveal a very significant measure of evolving public opinion on various matters. The worst thing on these forums are fence sitters whom I consider are treating serious issues as a sporting event. (Does'nt matter in light issues, but it's "horses for courses". The other aspect, is that within serious issues, people closely involved can, through forums actually have discussions somewhat free of their official contraints, but in this scenario the risks of identification may preclude such productive discussion. Summing up OSCAR, I don't think there is a black and white answer to your question. There is no doubt that identities or nicknames count for nothing at gov't / police level because we know for a fact that during the Concord enquiry the police had access to every post along with names, of every suspect (in their view) from this and other forums. The forum and it's structure, it's moderators etc is what it is, and I have no criticism of the present arrangements because I personally can offer no better solution.
Another good post. Level and balanced points made.
Weve had a lot of flack over the years about over moderation but if I consider two alternatives to this forum, eg Facebook, which has less moderation and more argy bargy, a playground for which we today term ''fake news'' or our esteemed competitors the ''new forum'' which simply bans all political or 1080 discussion, then I must say we sit pretty well in allowing most opinions to stay posted and have a good balance of fair discussion without total banning of hot potato topics.
ummmmm the other pub has been as political as the beehive for months n months....it started with firearms changes allowed to be discussed and has continued... religeon is still a nono unless of course you are taking the piss out of Christianity which it appears is ok.....
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki Reply #119 - May 3rd, 2020 at 3:47pm
years back a local chap bred up heaps of the parakeets,but as they had a little of the yellow fronted in them....or maybe red????he wasnt allowed to release them....they looked the same as the native ones I sae in greenstone so couldnt see issue...maybe he didnt have mates in the burocracy dept......