This forum will be closed for posting on Friday 8th Oct 2021 but can still be read for research and accessed by members to retrieve information. The new forum is at http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum
Fishnhunt New Zealands main hunting and Fishing Forum. millions of posts on fishing and hunting, dogs, 4x4 vehicles, outdoors and much more Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Trademe and firearm licence numbers (Read 10384 times)
Varmint
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 1310
Location: Auckland
Joined: May 17th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #15 - Jun 23rd, 2009 at 10:31pm
Print Post  
grunta wrote on Jun 23rd, 2009 at 6:14pm:
Hey all,

I can understand why people are getting a bit cranky about this, but do any of you guys give out your visa number to buy goods? goods that could be ammo, or anything else gun related? if you do, whats the probs about a license number? when you buy a gun through a shop, they take down your details.

Everyone to there own opinion and i'm not supporting trademe, but obviously they are allowed to do what they're doing, and if you dont like it, dont use them. Simple.

Grant


Exactly.  What are you going to do with a firearms licence number?

No one is worried about Trademe having their VISA details, but are all up in arms about the licence number.

I buy and sell guns and related items on Trademe all the time. If you don't want to enter your number - GOOD! More stuff for me to buy without you bidding and driving the price up.  Smiley

Varmint
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yawn
Ex Member


Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #16 - Jun 23rd, 2009 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
I dont use myeveryday visa on line at all. I have a mastercard with a small limit for on line use.If I wont to spend above the limit Ill just load it up.
A smaller but anoying part of the problem is having to fish out your license and input just to ask a question or to buy anything in the reloading line.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BTMO
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Show them you care. Stalk
them.

Posts: 4963
Location: Wellington
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #17 - Jun 23rd, 2009 at 10:57pm
Print Post  
Quote:
I dont use myeveryday visa on line at all. 


I do.

My bank caught an illegal transaction once - someone ran up $1200 on my card at Amazon UK. It happened in the early hours of the morning here in NZ - I was sound asleep.

I was woken by the bank, who rang me at 7 am, to tell me that they'd noticed the transactions, cancelled my card, a new one was in the mail, and that my total loss was ... zero. I had a new card within a couple of days.

I don't have a lot of issues about using my card online.

Incidentally, I suspect that the card had been hacked while I was overseas several months earlier - or the people involved just tried numbers until they found one that worked.
  

There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an id10t. (Steven Wright)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
primer
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Where is the Sika!!?

Posts: 7158
Location: TAUPO
Joined: Aug 7th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 7:35am
Print Post  
A bank just washes its hands of the debt. Its now the responsibility of the defrauded merchant for the $1200.
But you can rest easy. Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
NZVarminter
Donor Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 970
Joined: Nov 9th, 2006
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #19 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:45am
Print Post  
I emailed the Council of licenced firarms owners (COLFO) to ask if they had a position on it and here is there reply

"We have raised this and yes they are able to do this just as a gun shop or reseller does. Given the recent TV exposure of the illegal sale of a 22 and publicity it is in shooters interest for them to take this stance. Most web sites also recommend or take this step. They do not have direct access to the firearms database but are able to verify by arrangement with Police.

Cheers
Gary Howat
COLFO Chairman"

Hmm... not sure Gary realises there is a difference between Trademe and a gunshop!

and here is Trademe's response to my questions:

"Thanks for contacting us.

The requirement for firearms buyers to disclose their firearms licence details before bidding on firearms (for which a license is required) is a Trade Me requirement rather than a legislative one.  It is designed to ensure that buyers are licensed. The Arms Act 1983 does require that sellers sight the buyer’s firearms license or,  when selling by mail order, sight an endorsement signed by a member of the Police stating that the member of Police has inspected the purchaser's firearms license and is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition, before selling a firearm. 

The license information is held in accordance with our Privacy Policy, our Terms and Conditions and the Privacy Act.  Therefore we do not sell or rent your information, and it is only disclosed in the circumstances outlined in our Policy and provided for in the Privacy Act.

Also the New Zealand Police has not provided us with a list of licence numbers and names.  However if we have concerns regarding any licensing information provided or firearms transactions this can be passed on to the police.

If you have further questions regarding this issue please reply and we will answer your email as soon as possible.

Regards,

Rachel P

Trade Me Support
http://www.trademe.co.nz


So Trademe doesnt have a list of licences and names to verify my licence number against, which is good news.

Cheers

Grant

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cleaky
Forum Font
*****
Offline


... pass me my 16 gauge,
I'll handle this ...

Posts: 11613
Location: Southland
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #20 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:52am
Print Post  
Still got to wonder how they're verifying every single license number every single time.
  

It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BTMO
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Show them you care. Stalk
them.

Posts: 4963
Location: Wellington
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #21 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 9:25am
Print Post  
primer wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 7:35am:
A bank just washes its hands of the debt. Its now the responsibility of the defrauded merchant for the $1200.
But you can rest easy. Roll Eyes


And why or how could I do anything else?

I wasn't the perpetrator or the victim, despite some scumbag's best efforts. Also, I suspect that the action at the bank was so fast that Amazon UK (who must also surely have some sort of anti-theft algorithms in place) never even got as far as packing the order.
  

There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an id10t. (Steven Wright)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dairyispoison
Banned
**
Offline



Posts: 5444
Joined: Aug 6th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #22 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 9:50am
Print Post  
Jesus, it's so bloody simple!  None of what Trade Me require is out of line, and, if you don't like what they're doing, buy online somewhere else.
It's their site and they are free to run it their way, within the law.
So, do what I did.  Make up a number very similar to your own (my trade me number has only two digits changed and the same precursor letter) and supply them with that.
It's a similar sequence and the same number of digits, just slightly altered.
They're happy and I'm safe.
PS Get over it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
primer
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Where is the Sika!!?

Posts: 7158
Location: TAUPO
Joined: Aug 7th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #23 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 10:18am
Print Post  
You have alerted them to that.  Or maybe their search bot will get confused with altered. Wink

Wouldn't you like to know how safe you are. You don't really know until they explain the mechanism to cross check the numbers.

Maybe some cheap lax system that you could hack in two minutes.
I'm not getting inspired reading the reference system is that loose in your reply.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dairyispoison
Banned
**
Offline



Posts: 5444
Joined: Aug 6th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #24 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 5:21pm
Print Post  
i already know how safe I am;  They've got someone elses details when I've viewed their firearms site- how safe is that?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MassiveAttack
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Setting trends in waterfowling
fashion since 2011

Posts: 9559
Location: Canterbury
Joined: Feb 16th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #25 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:22pm
Print Post  
cleaky wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:52am:
Still got to wonder how they're verifying every single license number every single time.


With an algorithim/checksum.  It's almost like you blokes don't work in IT  Grin Grin

They may also have a black list of revoked license number (although I doubt it) but they won't have a list of valid license numbers.

If they did maintain a list then every time a license gets issues/revoked the police would have to update the trade me db.  There is no way in the world that they are this organised (anyone remember the incis police computer system?).

This is how ashfishman can transpose two digits and still pass the validation check.  They checksum generated remains the same (or hes accidentally using another valid number).

It also appears that they have done it by category i.e. everything in the ammo section requires a license.  I had to input my number when I brought a casting mold last week.

Also they are not going tell you what the algorithm is as that would make it easier to reverse engineer aka hack aka generate valid numbers.
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MassiveAttack
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Setting trends in waterfowling
fashion since 2011

Posts: 9559
Location: Canterbury
Joined: Feb 16th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #26 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:27pm
Print Post  
Two more points:
Under the privacy act you are entitled to ask to review the information that any company holds on you and if it is incorrect ask for a correction.

If your worried ask trade me to give you a copy of all the personal information they hold on you.

The new web site www.gunriflereload.co.nz has the firearms lisence number as your user ID!  This looks much more dodgy to me.  As it's available for all to see then whats to stop someone noting it and entering it into a trade me auction when they do an illegal purchase.

I see shooters world has signed up as shooters world rather than a license number so not sure how they get around it.

I don't really have a problem with the web site holding it as it's set up for E B and C cat sales, I just question why they use it as your user name.  As the trade me person said if they don't tighten up on this then internet sales of rifles will disappear shortly.

The license numbers on the questions is a direct response to the close up fiasco.
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scuba fella - Scooby
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Are we there yet?

Posts: 1209
Location: Lower Hutt
Joined: May 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #27 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 7:30pm
Print Post  
MassiveAttack wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:27pm:
The new web site www.gunriflereload.co.nz has the firearms lisence number as your user ID!  This looks much more dodgy to me.  As it's available for all to see then whats to stop someone noting it and entering it into a trade me auction when they do an illegal purchase.
.


I have an account with them at the moment. I have emailed them asking to be able to change my user name for this very reason.
I look forward to their reply.
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Al Ramsay
Ex Member


Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #28 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 7:48pm
Print Post  
Again, we can discuss this subject until it does a natural death but it will not change a thing. As we discovered from the several other threads of a similar nature.
Trademe always try to hide behind the statement that they are in no way involved in the sale but merely a vehicle for buyer and seller to exchange goods or something to that effect. However, now with the requiring of a firearms license number to be declared before bidding or even asking a question they are involved directly in the trade. No matter what you say, they will deny this though.
We are on a lose/lose situation... They dont care what you say or think it is all about the money!
The addition of the license number requirement is just another case of NZ'ers being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. If EVERYONE WHO sold firearms/parts/ammo/reloading gear first verified licenses or even had them signed off by the cops, we wouldnt now be in the situation we now find ourselves in!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TJ
Online Forum Guide
Donor Member
Staff
*****
Offline


EBRG forever- Cher, cher
Bro

Posts: 12695
Location: hamilton
Joined: Nov 9th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Trademe and firearm licence numbers
Reply #29 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:33pm
Print Post  
MassiveAttack wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:27pm:
Two more points:
Under the privacy act you are entitled to ask to review the information that any company holds on you and if it is incorrect ask for a correction.

If your worried ask trade me to give you a copy of all the personal information they hold on you.

The new web site www.gunriflereload.co.nz has the firearms lisence number as your user ID!  This looks much more dodgy to me.  As it's available for all to see then whats to stop someone noting it and entering it into a trade me auction when they do an illegal purchase.

I see shooters world has signed up as shooters world rather than a license number so not sure how they get around it.

I don't really have a problem with the web site holding it as it's set up for E B and C cat sales, I just question why they use it as your user name.  As the trade me person said if they don't tighten up on this then internet sales of rifles will disappear shortly.

The license numbers on the questions is a direct response to the close up fiasco.


The Act only applies to government departments it does not apply to a private firm
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 
Send TopicPrint
 

FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 » Powered by YaBB 2.6.11!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2022. All Rights Reserved.
Site Design By Alan Simmons - PRism and all rights are reserved from 1995 and onwards