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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting (Read 16532 times)
Alan
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Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Apr 28th, 2020 at 9:45am
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Does anyone know who it was arrested for illegal hunting or can they ask him to contact me.  As many of you know we in the Outdoors Party have been very critical of the no hunting, fishing ect rule. Sue Grey our co-leader and emerging issues lawyer has prepared a legal argument as to why the law was wrong and would be happy to defend whoever it is. So see if anyone can reach out to him...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/121300872/north-canterbury-man-arrested-a...
And please dont go on about he shouldn't have ..the fact is he is now charged under what we believe to be a unlawful law and for democracy sake it needs to be challenged. The Government is not above the law and should follow the law in making our laws...
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:21am
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Identity = selfish, irresponsible pr#ck!!! 👀

Let him defend himself Alan. 🙂
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:45am
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I and almost all on here didn't go out for the roar also out of respect for what the government was trying to do BUT it still does not justify someone being prosecuted and possibly convicted by a false law. If it was a national park doc have no lawful right to stop us from accessing it. This is a much bigger issue...
by the way heaps around here and in other places I know went hunting..its the food they put on the table. Not everyone in the countryside can afford to live from the supermarket meat section with a leg of crappy lamb at $50.00 In this case though I suspect you are quite right it was just greed and not hunger.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:55am
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What about Hone's 600km trip to Auckland for a feed?

Or David Clarks 20km trip to the beach with is family?

Or Simons Bridges massive drives to Wellington?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:57am
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If you travel 230km or what ever to hunt illegally, and know the risks, and get caught. Good job I say.

You are meant to be a political party Alan, not a citizen's advice bureau.

Don't confuse legal rights with societal rights. Mostly society will say he was an irresponsible idiot. And if you push this, they will put you in the same basket.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:19am
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Alan wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:45am:
I and almost all on here didn't go out for the roar also out of respect for what the government was trying to do BUT it still does not justify someone being prosecuted and possibly convicted by a false law. If it was a national park doc have no lawful right to stop us from accessing it. This is a much bigger issue...
by the way heaps around here and in other places I know went hunting..its the food they put on the table. Not everyone in the countryside can afford to live from the supermarket meat section with a leg of crappy lamb at $50.00 In this case though I suspect you are quite right it was just greed and not hunger.


That'd be an interesting topic for another time. I hear it a lot, but in my mind its mostly bullshit. Hear it often from guys with $50K  4WD's, flash hunting gear (increasingly including thermal gear) and the like. And lots of them don't shoot much........
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:26am
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Most guys on here stayed home and didn't go hunting.This guy broke the law,didnt give a toss about the rest of the country.Hope they thro the book at him. Angry
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:34am
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Trout wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:26am:
Most guys on here stayed home and didn't go hunting.This guy broke the law,didnt give a toss about the rest of the country.Hope they thro the book at him. Angry

That is the question ..did he break the law? I'm playing devils advocate here.... were we all fooled by a bluff?  Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:38am
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Alan wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:34am:
Trout wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:26am:
Most guys on here stayed home and didn't go hunting.This guy broke the law,didnt give a toss about the rest of the country.Hope they thro the book at him. Angry

That is the question ..did he break the law? I'm playing devils advocate here.... were we all fooled by a bluff?  Smiley


No. Common sense prevailed. The public are not silly - they support good ideas regardless of their origin or legal status.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:39am
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Alan wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:34am:
Trout wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:26am:
Most guys on here stayed home and didn't go hunting.This guy broke the law,didnt give a toss about the rest of the country.Hope they thro the book at him. Angry

That is the question ..did he break the law? I'm playing devils advocate here.... were we all fooled by a bluff?  Smiley


I'm with Alan on this even the Government need to be acting within the law.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #10 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 12:07pm
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FUSION wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:39am:
Alan wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:34am:
Trout wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 11:26am:
Most guys on here stayed home and didn't go hunting.This guy broke the law,didnt give a toss about the rest of the country.Hope they thro the book at him. Angry

That is the question ..did he break the law? I'm playing devils advocate here.... were we all fooled by a bluff?  Smiley


I'm with Alan on this even the Government need to be acting within the law.


I agree that the Gov ought to Act inside of the law. That's why legislation gets amended and changed. But its more likely it will be changed to the majority view. And the law does not decide if this chap was an idiot or not.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #11 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 3:13pm
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if you read the Health Act 1956 Sections 70 and 71 there does not seem to be any clauses around the shelter in place. There is this:

Quote:
require people to remain in the health district or the place in which they are isolated or quarantined until they have been medically examined and found to be free from infectious disease, and until they have undergone such preventive treatment as he may in any such case prescribe:


But that would require the Medical Officer of Health to declare quarantine for each region and make an effort to medically examine those quarantined.

BUT... check out this clause:

Quote:
Every person who suffers any loss or damage by the exercise of any of the powers conferred on the medical officer of health by this section shall be entitled to compensation to be determined in case of dispute by the District Court, whose decision shall be final.


^ that's a whole can of worms right there. Edit nevermind this applies to requisitions only (I think)

Finally, if you read the Covid 19 website the powers that are being used are listed under CDEM Act 2002. Which is why the govt had to extend the State of Emergency every 7 days.

And here is the Medical Officers Order 2020 for Covid 19 Level 3:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0069/latest/LMS339029.html...

Quote:
Limited recreation purposes

(e)
leave their home or place of residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if—
(i)
it is done in an outdoor place appropriate for that kind of exercise or recreation that is readily accessible (including by using their vehicle) from their home or place of residence (and, in any case, is within the same or an adjacent region); and
(ii)
it is done in compliance with the requirements that relate to physical distancing (see clause 6(1)(b)) and the prohibition against congregating (see clause 11); and
(iii)
it does not involve flying manned aircraft, scuba-diving, hunting in motorised vehicles, or water-based activities involving sailing boats, motorised craft, or motorised equipment; and
(iv)
it does not involve any other activities that expose the participant to danger (taking account of their experience and abilities):
Limited customary purposes

(f)
leave their home or place of residence for the purpose of exercising Māori customary rights to fishing and food gathering if—
(i)
it is done in an outdoor place appropriate for that kind of activity that is readily accessible (including by using their vehicle) from their home or place of residence (and, in any case, is within the same or an adjacent region); and
(ii)
it is done in compliance with the requirements that relate to physical distancing (see clause 6(1)(b)) and the prohibition against congregating (see clause 11); and
(iii)
it does not involve flying manned aircraft, scuba-diving, hunting in motorised vehicles, or water-based activities involving sailing boats, motorised craft, or motorised equipment; and
(iv)
it does not involve any other activities that expose the participant to danger (taking account of their experience and abilities)


^ that doesn't seem to ban hunting to me? (except in Vehicles). And the "readily accessible (including by using their vehicle) from their home" sounds to me like if I can drive there it's all good?

  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 3:45pm
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Something important to add to that- they have not specified what constitutes a region. Minister sage went as far as saying they did not know, and the prime minister this morning dodged that question. Could it be argued that how ever far you can travel and back on one tank of gas could be considered your region?

Im not actually arguing for this guy- But I am sick of this govts failures to do their job properly and continually specifying to stay in your region without clearly indicating what a region is this far into the crisis is useless!
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 4:11pm
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Absolutely agree. Sue Grey would have looked into this prior to publishing her piece, after all she is suitably qualified and to get it incorrect would cause reputational damage.
However the practicalities here are that because the situation is  unprecedented there is no case law to rely upon infront of a judge.

in two weeks hopefully we can all go hunting!
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 4:26pm
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I think hunting and shooting need to be  defined as two different things.
So theres pigs in my neighbours paddocks, is it legal if i shoot them? I definetly wouldn't call it hunting.





  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #15 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 4:48pm
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ItS all a crock of shit . I know for a fact that the iwi roadblocks in Murupara were stopping all outsiders from heading towards Minginui and Urewera , but were letting the locals and their mates from Rotorua.
How do i know , two of my workers from Rotorua went up to Ruatahuna for a weeks hunting for the roar during level 4 lockdown . Even brought some venison to work today.

Why have we two seperate sets of rules in this country ..
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #16 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 7:30pm
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Because you’re labelled a racist if you try to point it out👿

Plenty of pics of Gang members on road blocks too but the Govt is suppressing that......fake news.

I’ve read the opinion piece by Sue and whilst I may not agree with all of it there are some salient points.
I reserve my decision.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #17 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 7:48pm
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Plenty of pics of Gang members on road blocks too but the Govt is suppressing that......fake news.

Seriously? I can imagine the media might be, but to say the Govt is is simply a stretch of the imagination. What evidence do you have for such a statement?
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #18 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 8:01pm
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so let me see if I have this correct....
this person has decided to go hunting for four days 230ish kms away from his home...on doc ADMINISTERED land when its been close to access.....against all advice to stay home
when 99.9% of other hunters have done what were told/asked to do...have given up yearly roar....have accepted delayed duckshooting season
this person has gone out KNOWING what he was doing was against the wishes of the government
this person has said F8CK the rest of you hunters..
this person has said f%ck you SAR personel who might have to come n get him if he fell off a rock and broke ankle
this person has said f@ck all the older folks who this lockdown is trying to protect
this person has said f#ck you to all the small busnesses who are going broke because thier doors have been shut.
and YOU are looking to defend him Alan??????


  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #19 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 8:16pm
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oh dear reminds me of the meltdown that lead to the creation of the dark side. Come back Micky, its distressing.. but not that bad.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #20 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 8:18pm
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Plus DOC has cancelled all hunting permits so carrying a rifle would have been illegal regardless of anything else
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #21 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 9:40pm
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Backcountry Bob wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 8:18pm:
Plus DOC has cancelled all hunting permits so carrying a rifle would have been illegal regardless of anything else


I'm trying to find where it says the current permits have been canceled?
the only email I got was saying hunting wasn't allowed as well other recreational activities at this time.
and that new permits were not being issued.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #22 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 9:51pm
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What they did was cancel all permits for roar ballot blocks and disable the permit function on their website. As far as I'm aware my permit is still valid when hunting on DOC land is again permitted.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #23 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 12:01am
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FUSION wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 4:11pm:
in two weeks hopefully we can all go hunting!

Sorry FUSION
It looks like the fun police still won't let you out unless they define local


Taken from https://covid19.govt.nz/


Alert Level 2 — Reduce
The disease is contained, but the risk of community transmission remains.

Risk assessment
Household transmission could be occurring.
Single or isolated cluster outbreaks.
Range of measures (can be applied locally or nationally)
Physical distancing of 1 metre outside the home (including on public transport).
Gatherings of up to 100 people indoors and 500 outdoors allowed while maintaining physical distancing and contact tracing requirements.
Sport and recreation activities are allowed if conditions on gatherings are met, physical distancing is followed and travel is local.
Public venues can open but must comply with conditions on gatherings, and undertake public health measures.
Health services operate as normally as possible.
Most businesses open, and business premises can be open for staff and customers with appropriate measures in place. Alternative ways of working are encouraged, such as remote working, shift-based working, physical distancing, staggering meal breaks, flexible leave.
Schools and Early Childhood Education centres open, with distance learning available for those unable to attend school, such as people self-isolating.
People advised to avoid non-essential inter-regional travel.
People at high risk of severe illness (older people and those with existing medical conditions) are encouraged to stay at home where possible, and take additional precautions when leaving home. They may choose to work.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #24 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 6:49am
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HC - the Govt - specifically Jacinder has stated on live TV that it was not so, she then went further to say that there was no evidence and that was the end of the matter as far as she was concerned. That was at one of the live shows at 1300hrs. It was in relation to Simon Bridges trying to get into Maketu in his mini bus (idiot move to be fair)
If Jacinder said it - it must be the truth!  Maybe suppressed was too strong but total denial in the face of evidence? That’s a Trump way of doing things.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #25 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:10am
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BC wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:57am:
If you travel 230km or what ever to hunt illegally, and know the risks, and get caught. Good job I say.

You are meant to be a political party Alan, not a citizen's advice bureau.

Don't confuse legal rights with societal rights. Mostly society will say he was an irresponsible idiot. And if you push this, they will put you in the same basket.

He didn’t drive 230km to go hunting.
It was a 230km round trip.
Media extrapolation 😡
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #26 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:16am
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Cantyguy wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 9:51pm:
What they did was cancel all permits for roar ballot blocks and disable the permit function on their website. As far as I'm aware my permit is still valid when hunting on DOC land is again permitted.

Same here. Big difference between not issuing new permits and revoking the current ones.
If they want to revoke my permit all they have to do is email me, which they have chosen to not do.
Permit valid!
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #27 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:26am
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Quote:
so let me see if I have this correct....
this person has decided to go hunting for four days 230ish kms away from his home...on doc ADMINISTERED land when its been close to access.....against all advice to stay home
when 99.9% of other hunters have done what were told/asked to do...have given up yearly roar....have accepted delayed duckshooting season
this person has gone out KNOWING what he was doing was against the wishes of the government
this person has said F8CK the rest of you hunters..
this person has said f%ck you SAR personel who might have to come n get him if he fell off a rock and broke ankle
this person has said f@ck all the older folks who this lockdown is trying to protect
this person has said f#ck you to all the small busnesses who are going broke because thier doors have been shut.
and YOU are looking to defend him Alan??????



Picture a Ute rolling down a hill in a ball of flames. That’s the Outdoors Party since the change of co leaders.

When you’ve cooled down please come back, you’re very much valued here.

  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #28 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:29am
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Maddoghunter wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:10am:
BC wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:57am:
If you travel 230km or what ever to hunt illegally, and know the risks, and get caught. Good job I say.

You are meant to be a political party Alan, not a citizen's advice bureau.

Don't confuse legal rights with societal rights. Mostly society will say he was an irresponsible idiot. And if you push this, they will put you in the same basket.

He didn’t drive 230km to go hunting.
It was a 230km round trip.
Media extrapolation 😡


The round trip was how I interpreted the media report.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #29 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:47am
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BC wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 10:57am:
If you travel 230km or what ever to hunt illegally, and know the risks, and get caught. Good job I say.

You are meant to be a political party Alan, not a citizen's advice bureau.

Don't confuse legal rights with societal rights. Mostly society will say he was an irresponsible idiot. And if you push this, they will put you in the same basket.



Whoever heard of an unlawful law?

All DOC hunting permits were rescinded at the start of this. He was hunting unlawfully, there is no defense that can be brought and it would be cruel to offer up some half-baked legal support to this guy and get his hopes up.

Who also, lets remember, doesn't deserve any help. He went out and did what we all had the moral and legal sense not to.

  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #30 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 8:06am
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Jeez Alan. Surely better ways to garner support for the party?!

I don't see how defending this fwit is going to provide any positive reflection on the party.

99.9% of us complied with the rules for the greater good. Be they lawful or not, by doing this we can now see the light at the end of the tunnel and are looking forward to getting out there again.

Would you still hold the same position if he shot himself inthe leg and needed SAR to get him off the hill?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #31 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 8:17am
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I was thinking the same Pyro. Alan just trying to gather more support/voters. Unfortunately this time he is trying to support a f#<kwit who shouldn't be offered support. Nice try Alan but this one has backfired on you big time.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #32 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 8:51am
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Maddoghunter wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:16am:
What they did was cancel all permits for roar ballot blocks and disable the permit function on their website. As far as I'm aware my permit is still valid when hunting on DOC land is again permitted.

my thoughts too

Carlsen Highway wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 7:47am:
All DOC hunting permits were rescinded at the start of this. He was hunting unlawfully, there is no defense that can be brought

can you quote any official documents rescinding the standard hunting permits? Roll Eyes
other than an Doc email stating
" Hunting on public conservation land will not be allowed until New Zealand returns to Alert Level 2. ''

any proof of legally rescinding current and vaild permits or lawfully restricting access?
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #33 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 9:43am
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alan and sunny wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 12:01am:
FUSION wrote on Apr 28th, 2020 at 4:11pm:
in two weeks hopefully we can all go hunting!

Sorry FUSION
It looks like the fun police still won't let you out unless they define local


Taken from https://covid19.govt.nz/


Alert Level 2 — Reduce
The disease is contained, but the risk of community transmission remains.

Risk assessment
Household transmission could be occurring.
Single or isolated cluster outbreaks.
Range of measures (can be applied locally or nationally)
Physical distancing of 1 metre outside the home (including on public transport).
Gatherings of up to 100 people indoors and 500 outdoors allowed while maintaining physical distancing and contact tracing requirements.
Sport and recreation activities are allowed if conditions on gatherings are met, physical distancing is followed and travel is local.
Public venues can open but must comply with conditions on gatherings, and undertake public health measures.
Health services operate as normally as possible.
Most businesses open, and business premises can be open for staff and customers with appropriate measures in place. Alternative ways of working are encouraged, such as remote working, shift-based working, physical distancing, staggering meal breaks, flexible leave.
Schools and Early Childhood Education centres open, with distance learning available for those unable to attend school, such as people self-isolating.
People advised to avoid non-essential inter-regional travel.
People at high risk of severe illness (older people and those with existing medical conditions) are encouraged to stay at home where possible, and take additional precautions when leaving home. They may choose to work.


^ Here is the problem. Some of that bares no resemblance to actual medical officers order.

Funny thing is I could not find a record of the Medical Officers Order for level 4. I suspect if that hunter gets a good lawyer he will make a mockery of the charges.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #34 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 10:45am
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All hunting permits have been cancelled. DOC announced it themselves and it was reported in the media.

If you go hunting on DOC land now you will charged with illegal hunting, as this guy was. And he will lose his case regardless of whatever legal finangling the Outdoor NZ party lawyers get into, for this very straightforward reason.

(There is also every chance that this fool never got a hunting permit in the first place anyway.)
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #35 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 11:20am
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Carlsen Highway wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 10:45am:
All hunting permits have been cancelled. DOC announced it themselves and it was reported in the media.

If you go hunting on DOC land now you will charged with illegal hunting, as this guy was. And he will lose his case regardless of whatever legal finangling the Outdoor NZ party lawyers get into, for this very straightforward reason.

(There is also every chance that this fool never got a hunting permit in the first place anyway.)


I looked and cannot find anything that says All hunting permits are cancelled. All I can find is that roar ballots have been cancelled and that "Eugenie Sage said no hunting".

I would not be surprised if this hunter wins his case, as I can find no record of a Covid 19 Level 4 Medical Officers order. In fact David Seymour referred the lack of a Level 4 order. There has only been a level 3 order, and the restrictions around travel are very wishy washy.

I do not support this hunter, but I think a good lawyer will have a field day with this as I believe the government has done a very sloppy job.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #36 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 12:01pm
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Carlsen Highway wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 10:45am:
All hunting permits have been cancelled. DOC announced it themselves and it was reported in the media.

If you go hunting on DOC land now you will charged with illegal hunting, as this guy was. And he will lose his case regardless of whatever legal finangling the Outdoor NZ party lawyers get into, for this very straightforward reason.

(There is also every chance that this fool never got a hunting permit in the first place anyway.)


I am pretty sure also, that Doc permits were and are still valid at no point along the way were they revoked, only Roar ballots etc got revoked . Doc have just stopped issuing new ones tho lockdown and level 3. Also I think if they did revoke doc permits at the very least they would have to send a email to every permit holder stating this, just like anything else it has to be down on paper!! or it will have no weight at all in court. I don't support the guy for wot he did either and also would be picking he did not have a permit anyway.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #37 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 1:21pm
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Vulcan wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 11:20am:
I would not be surprised if this hunter wins his case, as I can find no record of a Covid 19 Level 4 Medical Officers order. In fact David Seymour referred the lack of a Level 4 order. There has only been a level 3 order, and the restrictions around travel are very wishy washy.

I do not support this hunter, but I think a good lawyer will have a field day with this as I believe the government has done a very sloppy job.


I'm not sure about that, hunting was pretty specifically prohibited, permits or not: Section 70(1)(f) Health Act Order

Quote:
Limited Recreation Purposes

e. a person leaving their residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if -

i. it is done in an outdoor place that can be readily accessed from their residence; and
ii. it is done in compliance with clause 1(b) of this order (the physical distancing requirements) and the order forbidding congregation in outdoor places made under s 70(1)(m) of the Health Act 1956 on 25 March 2020; and
iii. it does not involve swimming, water-based activities (for example, surfing or boating), hunting, tramping, or other activities of a kind that expose participants to danger or may require search and rescue services.

  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #38 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 4:58pm
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Regardless of whether DOC hunting permits are cancelled or not, we should all know what's expected of us.

Don't hunt on public land. There's lots of good reason why we shouldn't and if you can't figure that out you deserve what ever punishment is dished out. Even if its only the public shaming.

  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #39 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 8:11pm
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For gods sake! you can argue "legal definition" ect until you are blue in the face, who knows, you might even "win" in court, but only a moron could misunderstand the govt/doc intent/meaning and in a couple of weeks it might not matter anyway.

If you're the bloke in court arguing this case, while you have it in the back of your mind that losing means FAL gone, vehicle and rifle gone, fine and maybe jail on the menu as well, I'm happily working on restocking my freezer stress free.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #40 - Apr 29th, 2020 at 10:37pm
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My email  does  say permits have been cancelled only for Roar blocks as such .but entry and hunting is not allowed.

Tēnā koe Graham,

As you are a current Department of Conservation (DOC) hunting permit holder we are getting in touch to remind you hunting and other recreational activities are not allowed at this time
New Zealand is at COVID Level 4 and we have closed all DOC huts, campsites and carparks to support New Zealand in stopping the spread of COVID-19 and saving lives.

Director-General of Health, Dr Ashley Bloomfield has issued a Health Notice which formally states people are not to go hunting, fishing, tramping, swimming, or undertake other activities which may require search and rescue.

For your reference, the notice outlines the following:

Everyone in New Zealand is to be isolated or quarantined at their current place of residence except as permitted for essential personal movement.
Exercise is to be done in an outdoor place that can be readily accessed from home and two-metre physical distancing must be maintained.
Recreation and exercise does not involve swimming, water-based activities (for example, surfing or boating), hunting, tramping, or other activities of a kind that expose participants to danger or may require search and rescue services.
It’s important to understand that hunting will expose people to higher levels of risk and put pressure on the emergency services if they need to respond. Police have the discretion to warn or arrest people deliberately flouting the restrictions.

New DOC hunting permits are not being issued and hunting blocks assigned to hunters as part of the 2020 deer roar ballots have been cancelled. The tahr rut ballots will be assessed closer to the time and will be cancelled if restrictions remain in place.

We will contact you again when the COVID-19 hunting restrictions are lifted or extended.

For more information:

Visit DOC’s website for information including track updates, closures and safety advice: www.doc.govt.nz
Visit our COVID-19 hunting webpage: https://www.doc.govt.nz/covid-19-and-hunting/
Go to https://covid19.govt.nz/ for the latest all of government updates.
Thank you for your support and understanding during this challenging time.

Ngā mihi nui,

Steve Taylor

Director Heritage and Visitors
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #41 - Apr 30th, 2020 at 10:37am
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Drew Carrymore wrote on Apr 29th, 2020 at 8:11pm:
For gods sake! you can argue "legal definition" ect until you are blue in the face, who knows, you might even "win" in court, but only a moron could misunderstand the govt/doc intent/meaning and in a couple of weeks it might not matter anyway.

If you're the bloke in court arguing this case, while you have it in the back of your mind that losing means FAL gone, vehicle and rifle gone, fine and maybe jail on the menu as well, I'm happily working on restocking my freezer stress free.


So how about all those muppets who broke social distancing rules outside of Burger Fuel. Not only were they breaking the medical order, they were actually doing something that would create a problem and spread covid19. Police did attend.

Sure the hunter broke the requirements. But he didn't do anything which would spread covid19.


  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #42 - Apr 30th, 2020 at 11:05am
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I thought the same when i saw this in the media. A group appears to get away with it but an individual not?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #43 - Apr 30th, 2020 at 8:16pm
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Different situations and levels between the two cases. The cops have been "educating" the majority of people and maybe even a few hunters on the way out were educated and turned around, who knows?

In terms of support for the outdoors party ( which have some favourable objectives  from my point of view) what's the gain? Maybe get 3,4,500 extra voters? (What does that equate to in terms of nation wide % )While convincing the remainders to keep voting for who they usually do?

For me I don't see it as a flag planted on a hill that would gain my vote. Maybe party funds are better directed elsewhere?

It seems to me that lately compassion and care, are winning hearts and minds!....let's see how we feel once the recession hits!

(Ps currently mulling over the merits of, TOPS or hone and the internet party...... Roll Eyes )
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #44 - May 1st, 2020 at 9:21am
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For Level 3, a bunch of outdoor organisations and Govt have put together a website that has a 'look up' guide to outdoor activities and what you can and cant do: https://www.covid19outdoors.nz/

It doesnt make a huge difference to advice, but at least it is recognised that there are many different types of hunting - something that some happily glossed over initially and just talked about everyone chasing roaring stags in the bush
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #45 - May 1st, 2020 at 1:43pm
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You guys are acting like spoilt children ,theres no confusion about the intent of the directive .everybody else took a hit and there is no way this chap thought he wasnt breaking the rules .
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #46 - May 1st, 2020 at 2:34pm
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trippin ova wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 1:43pm:
You guys are acting like spoilt children ,theres no confusion about the intent of the directive .everybody else took a hit and there is no way this chap thought he wasnt breaking the rules .


Spoiled children? More like a group that feels it has been unfairly targeted.

The government stated the primary reason for banning hunting was to avoid situations where rescue might be necessary and that would break bubbles.

At the same time the government allowed activities that met or exceeded this risk (e.g. mountain biking). To rub salt in the wound rescues for some of these activities were required in the first week of lock down. Which the government duly ignored.

The government then opened up this activity with some peculiar exceptions, specific Maori land. How is a hunter on Maori land any less of a risk?

It paints a picture of very biased decision making based on the personal ideologies of members of the government.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #47 - May 1st, 2020 at 5:40pm
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What he said, could not have put it better myself.

Brings to mind the old adage: "All people are created equal, but some are more equal than others"  Angry
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #48 - May 1st, 2020 at 7:29pm
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no it's vote buying, it is an election year
  

Keep your barrel clean and your powder dry
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #49 - May 1st, 2020 at 8:53pm
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XRhunter wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 5:40pm:
What he said, could not have put it better myself.

Brings to mind the old adage: "All people are created equal, but some are more equal than others"  Angry


Maybe. But I think that its really easy to feel marginalised if you focus on the exceptions and the subjective rather than the bigger picture and the objectives. Like, save people's arses.

The rules are not perfect. How the rules are  articulated is not perfect. But it isn't hard to figure out  what they actually mean and what we ought to do. We can choose to be a victim or part of the solution. The solution is do with what we ought to do.

Me. I will do what's best and what I ought to do and not sweat about the minor inequities.


  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #50 - May 2nd, 2020 at 8:24am
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Well said BC
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #51 - May 2nd, 2020 at 9:28am
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BC wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 8:53pm:
XRhunter wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 5:40pm:
What he said, could not have put it better myself.

Brings to mind the old adage: "All people are created equal, but some are more equal than others"  Angry


Maybe. But I think that its really easy to feel marginalised if you focus on the exceptions and the subjective rather than the bigger picture and the objectives. Like, save people's arses.

The rules are not perfect. How the rules are  articulated is not perfect. But it isn't hard to figure out  what they actually mean and what we ought to do. We can choose to be a victim or part of the solution. The solution is do with what we ought to do.

Me. I will do what's best and what I ought to do and not sweat about the minor inequities.


I completely disagree. I am a meet hunter, not a roar nor a duck hunter. So I do not disagree with some of the policies.

However it is not hard to notice the bias. Particularly when in the first week of lock down you have trampers going missing and mountain bikers requiring helicopter rescues in the hills of Wellington.

To me the bigger picture is that the government identified activities likely to break bubbles for need of rescue as those that should be banned. Many people questioned why certain activities were picked out when more dangerous ones were left alone (even David Seymour noticed). Then very quickly we have demonstrations of why those left alone activities should be banned. But nothing happened.

And nobody can tell me what is so magical about Maori land that makes it safe (except perhaps some misguided belief in magic?).

This is a clear demonstration of political bias.

So the question is what do we do about it?

The answer is nothing. Because it is a good idea. However we do need to take note that this government has a clear bias to the point where logic no longer applies, and they will persecute hunters and shooters at every opportunity. And where will it stop?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #52 - May 2nd, 2020 at 9:53am
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BC wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 8:53pm:
What he said, could not have put it better myself.

Brings to mind the old adage: "All people are created equal, but some are more equal than others"  Angry

Maybe. But I think that its really easy to feel marginalised if you focus on the exceptions and the subjective rather than the bigger picture and the objectives. Like, save people's arses.

The rules are not perfect. How the rules are  articulated is not perfect. But it isn't hard to figure out  what they actually mean and what we ought to do. We can choose to be a victim or part of the solution. The solution is do with what we ought to do.

Me. I will do what's best and what I ought to do and not sweat about the minor inequities.


So BC if we keep on going in and out of say level 2 to level 3 or even level 4 for the next 2 years, you will be happy to sit back and take it from behind? while other sports which are clearly more of a risk are still aloud to carry on.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #53 - May 2nd, 2020 at 10:57am
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Currently Im ok about things and not sweating. A year's time? 2 years? I haven't a clue. I will wait and see.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #54 - May 3rd, 2020 at 8:46am
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Vulcan wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 2:34pm:
trippin ova wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 1:43pm:
You guys are acting like spoilt children ,theres no confusion about the intent of the directive .everybody else took a hit and there is no way this chap thought he wasnt breaking the rules .


The government stated the primary reason for banning hunting was to avoid situations where rescue might be necessary and that would break bubbles.

At the same time the government allowed activities that met or exceeded this risk (e.g. mountain biking). To rub salt in the wound rescues for some of these activities were required in the first week of lock down. Which the government duly ignored.


I believe your thinking is ‘arse about face’. The focus needs to be on these other activities also being banned, not hunting being allowed. Remember that the intent is to save lives!!!  Smiley
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #55 - May 3rd, 2020 at 9:13am
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trippin ova wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 1:43pm:
You guys are acting like spoilt children ,theres no confusion about the intent of the directive .everybody else took a hit and there is no way this chap thought he wasnt breaking the rules .

well said Mate..... went through youe wee town at dawn yeasterday.....beautiful colours,possibly the most spectacular desplay of natures beauty Ive ever seen...the big fella sure was making it nice to be alive on such a glorious day.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #56 - May 4th, 2020 at 11:14am
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Vulcan wrote on May 2nd, 2020 at 9:28am:
BC wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 8:53pm:
XRhunter wrote on May 1st, 2020 at 5:40pm:
What he said, could not have put it better myself.

Brings to mind the old adage: "All people are created equal, but some are more equal than others"  Angry


Maybe. But I think that its really easy to feel marginalised if you focus on the exceptions and the subjective rather than the bigger picture and the objectives. Like, save people's arses.

The rules are not perfect. How the rules are  articulated is not perfect. But it isn't hard to figure out  what they actually mean and what we ought to do. We can choose to be a victim or part of the solution. The solution is do with what we ought to do.

Me. I will do what's best and what I ought to do and not sweat about the minor inequities.


I completely disagree. I am a meet hunter, not a roar nor a duck hunter. So I do not disagree with some of the policies.

However it is not hard to notice the bias. Particularly when in the first week of lock down you have trampers going missing and mountain bikers requiring helicopter rescues in the hills of Wellington.

To me the bigger picture is that the government identified activities likely to break bubbles for need of rescue as those that should be banned. Many people questioned why certain activities were picked out when more dangerous ones were left alone (even David Seymour noticed). Then very quickly we have demonstrations of why those left alone activities should be banned. But nothing happened.

And nobody can tell me what is so magical about Maori land that makes it safe (except perhaps some misguided belief in magic?).

This is a clear demonstration of political bias.

So the question is what do we do about it?

The answer is nothing. Because it is a good idea. However we do need to take note that this government has a clear bias to the point where logic no longer applies, and they will persecute hunters and shooters at every opportunity. And where will it stop?



Maybe because generally speaking the country isn't as gnarly as a lot of PCL, and so assistance is less likely to be required?  Undecided
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #57 - May 4th, 2020 at 12:21pm
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You lot are completely missing the point of what’s going on.
The left, and in particular the Green Party, have an agenda.
That agenda includes ZERO public hunting on land administered by DOC.
Eugenie Sage has even said it (not that I can remember where/when).
When Sage became Minister of conservation she was quite forthcoming with showing her attitude towards hunters (calling us “Cu..ers”).
She is using this situation to give everyone a taste of what it’s like to not have hunters on crown land. That sticks out like dogs balls. Once everyone’s got a taste for it and doesn’t mind it it becomes a lot easier to legislate it.
The Green Party are very opportunistic and never miss a chance to push there agenda onto the public.

Another example of this is just last week, where Auckland transport coned off a lot of ponsonby rd, saying it was to allow for “social distancing” of walkers and cyclists. This has prevented cars from being parked outside shops.
They did this at a time when struggling business owners are needing people to patronise their shops.
When confronted about it, the boss of AT admitted that the directive had come from Julianne Genter.

As I say, the greens never miss an opportunity to push their crazy agenda.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #58 - May 4th, 2020 at 1:18pm
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https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/05/04/exclusive-government-and-police-lockdown-actions
-not-legally-supported/

You were right after all  Alan.



  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #59 - May 4th, 2020 at 1:39pm
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He was right. There is such a thing as unlawful laws.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #60 - May 4th, 2020 at 2:04pm
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After reading the legal analysis above, consider this:

"Speaking to RNZ, Ardern said breaches of alert level 3 “weren't travelling too badly” after an initial and expected blip, which had police issue 73 warnings and prosecute 32 people."

What would these 32 people have been prosecuted for and under what act?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #61 - May 4th, 2020 at 2:15pm
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Could mean anything CH, minor traffic infringements?

I think there have been lots of lies told.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #62 - May 4th, 2020 at 5:34pm
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WEll, I looked into it and that webste article is full of legal shit.

The law they are working by is the state of emergency declared by the government which gives them extra powers, and the declaration of an epidemic under the Heath act 1956.

As such the police can do what is reasonably necessary to enforce the quaratine that has been put in place, and the charge for being a silly bugger is ""obstructing a medical officer of health"", being variously, an actual medical officer, the police man who is enforcing it, or the requirements of the officer of health.


In other words, yes they can have check points or do what could be considered reasonable and yes you can be prosecuted for driving around the place. $4000 or 6 months in prison.

The police I believe have taken a very lenient soft handed approach to all of this for political reasons if not humanitarian ones.

None of this has to do with a charge of illegal hunting.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #63 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:30pm
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I think we all have an lot of time on our hands and plenty of cabin fever.  Instead of niggleing, just put your head down and move on through to the end of this week.  Smiley 
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #64 - May 4th, 2020 at 7:50pm
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I think the Police have done damned well, for what ever reasons. I prefer to applaud their good efforts and actions than to explore the minutiae in order to beat them up.

I would have actually liked them to have kicked a few more bums and if the army had been on the Wellington and Auckland streets and beaches helping the Police last weekend I would have been out there applauding them. From a distance.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #65 - May 4th, 2020 at 8:22pm
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I see where you're coming from Alan.  I'm sure you agree that he shouldn't have done it, but you're looking at a bigger picture.  It's called control folks and you watch, this is the beginning of a new era.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #66 - May 5th, 2020 at 11:41am
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Good on him or her.
Someone had the balls to live their life without the control from a ludicrous totalitarian regime running the country, combined with the pack mentality self regulating bullying from the rest of the populous.

History will show that that the knee jerk reaction from this Govt was a complete over reaction and completely unnecessary. Meanwhile despicable elements in the Police force and Govt will be quietly noting how easy it was to grab complete control of the country and how easily everyone rolled over.

  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #67 - May 5th, 2020 at 12:06pm
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Sounds paranoid to me.  Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #68 - May 5th, 2020 at 12:13pm
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rooshoot wrote on May 4th, 2020 at 8:22pm:
I see where you're coming from Alan.  I'm sure you agree that he shouldn't have done it, but you're looking at a bigger picture.  It's called control folks and you watch, this is the beginning of a new era.


Or a very narrow self serving picture. Depends on your perspective.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #69 - May 5th, 2020 at 12:18pm
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avon_7 wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 11:41am:
Good on him or her.
Someone had the balls to live their life without the control from a ludicrous totalitarian regime running the country, combined with the pack mentality self regulating bullying from the rest of the populous.

History will show that that the knee jerk reaction from this Govt was a complete over reaction and completely unnecessary. Meanwhile despicable elements in the Police force and Govt will be quietly noting how easy it was to grab complete control of the country and how easily everyone rolled over.



You talk as if this Gov will be in power for ever. Nah, they wont.

Fortunately, we will never know if Gov's actions were a over reaction or not.

In any event I would be very pleased if in 18 months time people are saying they got it wrong and over reacted because there were so few cases and so few deaths.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #70 - May 5th, 2020 at 3:40pm
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Given all the dumbasses out there getting arrested I think this single hunters actions have paled in comparison to the general publics actions.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #71 - May 5th, 2020 at 4:24pm
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I think I might 'log off' again   Grin
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #72 - May 5th, 2020 at 4:42pm
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Vulcan wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 3:40pm:
Given all the dumbasses out there getting arrested I think this single hunters actions have paled in comparison to the general publics actions.


They need a good slapping too.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #73 - May 5th, 2020 at 4:50pm
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Trust me most front line officers would love to have the ability that the Aussies have with instant fines but we haven’t so we’re being told to Engage, Communicate, Educate, and last is to Enforce. Arrest was said to be the final option but some people made a very good case that it should have been the first. I know for a fact that there’s people out there who have thumb their noses at the rules and been given warning after warning, add to that the jack asses that decieded to illegally hunt - I have no sympathy. I’m not into totalitarian control nor am I entering the realm of conspiracy theory. In relation to those caught unlawfully hunting again no sympathy and may the courts see it for what it actually is.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #74 - May 5th, 2020 at 5:59pm
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There's more than just the odd idiot thumbing their snorer at Authorities re hunting:

Mate just drove from Central NI to Manawatu to start another "essential business" job. Said the Kaimanawa road end was chokka full of 4X4s c/w quad trailers. Easy task for a copper to waltz on up and take regos....if they were so inclined Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #75 - May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm
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Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #76 - May 5th, 2020 at 9:20pm
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gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


I take issue with that.
You are in the wrong tense.
You are asking if it may happen.  I am sorry to inform you, that it already has....

Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #77 - May 6th, 2020 at 8:01am
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gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


Thats why we were told tens of thousands of people will die if we don't stay home, Cindy  had to rely on fear to get people to comply with the lockdown. It worked well.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #78 - May 6th, 2020 at 8:45am
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FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:01am:
gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


Thats why we were told tens of thousands of people will die if we don't stay home, Cindy  had to rely on fear to get people to comply with the lockdown. It worked well.


The American President told their people the opposite and played the possible death numbers down, and now look at their situation.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #79 - May 6th, 2020 at 8:55am
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BC wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:45am:
FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:01am:
gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


Thats why we were told tens of thousands of people will die if we don't stay home, Cindy  had to rely on fear to get people to comply with the lockdown. It worked well.


The American President told their people the opposite and played the possible death numbers down, and now look at their situation.


Still less than the seasonal flu! you have been watching CNN Grin
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #80 - May 6th, 2020 at 9:00am
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It seems many people are seeking out the fine print, the fringes, the get out clauses, the it doesn't apply to me, etc so that they can do what they want want to do. A self centered bugger anyone else attitude. It's clear what the intent of the covid levels and guidelines are. Does it really matter if its lawful or not? Its simply the right thing to do. I'm surprised there's so much debate about it.

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #81 - May 6th, 2020 at 10:07am
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FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:55am:
BC wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:45am:
FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:01am:
gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


Thats why we were told tens of thousands of people will die if we don't stay home, Cindy  had to rely on fear to get people to comply with the lockdown. It worked well.


The American President told their people the opposite and played the possible death numbers down, and now look at their situation.


Still less than the seasonal flu! you have been watching CNN Grin


Actually no. The latest figures are indicating it is deadlier than the ''normal flu''. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

I cant help but wonder how some of you would be feeling if it had gotten into your ''bubble'' and taken out a couple of people close to you, and knowing it might have been preventable.

and right now in the USA.. Fox will tell you something else, but the real figures are undeniable.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/05/coronavirus-live-updates-t...
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #82 - May 6th, 2020 at 12:01pm
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uk_exile wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 9:00am:
The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out - Thomas Babington Macaulay


Coming back at ya; from a Pommy Conservative no less Cheesy Cheesy
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The Rule of Law trumps a 'really really good idea' every time.  Which this Coalition seem to get confused over. Shocked
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #83 - May 6th, 2020 at 1:26pm
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headcase wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 10:07am:
FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:55am:
BC wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:45am:
FUSION wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 8:01am:
gmm wrote on May 5th, 2020 at 9:11pm:
Interesting report in News Hub today from former Attorney General Chris Finlayson who believes that those arrested for breaches of level 4 are unlikely to be prosecuted.
The crown law office advised the Government that they have little authority to enforce the lock down and Finlayson said such arrests undermined the rule of law.
The Government including the current AG Minister Parker were advised of this, however they chose to ignore legal advice to disclose the advice to the public.
Interesting that the crown law office advice was ignored and irrespective of serious questions about the legal basis for enforcing lock down the Government choose to act with very little lawful authority.
If a democratically elected Government acts unlawfully does it become a dictatorship?


Thats why we were told tens of thousands of people will die if we don't stay home, Cindy  had to rely on fear to get people to comply with the lockdown. It worked well.


The American President told their people the opposite and played the possible death numbers down, and now look at their situation.


Still less than the seasonal flu! you have been watching CNN Grin


Actually no. The latest figures are indicating it is deadlier than the ''normal flu''. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

I cant help but wonder how some of you would be feeling if it had gotten into your ''bubble'' and taken out a couple of people close to you, and knowing it might have been preventable.

and right now in the USA.. Fox will tell you something else, but the real figures are undeniable.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/05/05/coronavirus-live-updates-t...


Yes, people are still dying of the flu, just like they are dying all over the world from other previously known causes.

This virus however is on top of all of that.

Now we are dealing with previously known causes of death, plus something else.

Unwanted, devastating, needs to be controlled.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #84 - May 6th, 2020 at 2:44pm
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In my mind the character, morals and behaviour of a person is always far more important than how they do, or don't, obey a local law. Respect is earned and it's not simply given because of demonstrating adherence to something written. I'm not going to argue over it though, can't be bothered and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

p.s. its a user name only, I'm not british. Chose it 20+yrs ago when temporarily working in UK
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #85 - May 6th, 2020 at 3:44pm
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Very grateful the government acted quickly on coronavirus to effectively limit fatalities in NZ.  Excellent work.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #86 - May 6th, 2020 at 4:13pm
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I at this stage dont care about the virus anymore...Im being really really selfish and absolutely LOVING not having to share the roads with all the juicy rentals,ezy rentals,avis rentals,budget rentals and orirentals most of all Grin Grin

but then I drive for a living and live in arguably the most effected town by the tourist traffic volumnes.......its been nice not to hear sirens 4 times a week, knowing there has been another crash on one lane bridge up the road.
I just hope when we do our week long cattle cart from Tarras back to Rangitata that the rentals are still nowhere to be seen rather than on wrong side of road or zooming up and over taking on blind corners...I shit you not,Ive twice had car overtake me within 50 mtrs of a 30km blind corner in middle of lindus pass gorge....talk about pucker material Angry Angry
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #87 - May 6th, 2020 at 5:26pm
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Alan you stated..."Sue Grey has looked into emerging issues."
Has the government followed legal legislation or just made up the rules as things have developed ?

Has this North Canterbury hunter brocken the rules or the law?

We all know in the pass previous issues by the New Zealand governments over time and how much misimformation has been told to the NZ public.

How ever, thank goodness we are living under this government handling of covid-19 than Donald Trumps administration of the virus and let alone other governments around the world ?

Belgium and its virus problem; according to the worldometers.info......It has a population of 11,589,623 people and a latest covid-19 death rate of 8016 which equates to 692 per one million souls. Imagine if New Zealand having about 42 % proportional figures / this could equate to some 3000 deaths or more through covid-19.

What has got up a lot of peoples noses is this mountain biking issues.....and especially those in charge who break the rules.

If a responsible hunter and his associates get a "medical cleaning rod shoved up their noses" and if the results comes back clear of any covid-19 symptoms why shouldn't they be allowed to go hunting locally.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #88 - May 6th, 2020 at 7:50pm
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I think what this hunter may have done is hunting DOC land when hunting on DOC land banned (according to the DOC site)? That is if proven unless he admitted this? And depending on location - out of region/non essential travel? So if DOC aren't charging him for hunting without permission on DOC land, cant see how the police can do much aside from non essential travel? Just another perspective.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #89 - May 6th, 2020 at 8:12pm
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Micky Duck wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 4:13pm:
but then I drive for a living and live in arguably the most effected town by the tourist traffic volumnes...

+ 1 MD.
Actually I can tolerate the no hunting fishing for 6+ weeks, but if I had a dying relative and so told no contact were they died alone in hospital then I think I would some have serious questions about what we are saving vs the cost??
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #90 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:49am
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Micky Duck wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 4:13pm:
LOVING not having to share the roads with all the juicy rentals,ezy rentals,avis rentals,budget rentals and orirentals most of all Grin Grin


Yes that has been a real plus, can't agree more. I am loving having no tourist around all together especially the freedom campers it drives me nuts that the government is pushing for more and more and us kiwis are becoming the gold fish in the middle of it all.
Once we can go hunting again I will be able to go to one of my local huts knowing i can get a bed, not have to worry that it will be full to the brine with tourist walking the the Te auroa trail, before that started you use to barely see a person these days in summer there will be 40 to 50 tourist walking and staying in the hut that can only hold 10 !! these my rant anyway haha. I would say there would be a lot of people on here in the same boat and would prefer least tourist in NZ as a whole.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #91 - May 7th, 2020 at 7:14am
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Same here, I'm really looking forward to the next few years before big numbers of overseas tourists arrive back again.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #92 - May 7th, 2020 at 8:00am
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Given that the health minister was quite openly flouting the rules its hardly surprising that others like this hunter did also.

And as far as I can tell, he broke the rules, not the law.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #93 - May 7th, 2020 at 8:48am
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So what? Common sense should prevail here. The vast majority of us played by the rules/law, call it what you will. Consider the alternatives, a situation similar to USA? or the UK, or being asked to observe a lockdown for a few weeks. It hasn't been so difficult has it? Trump, Johnson and Bridges are all tarred with the same brush and not fit to lead. Oh and lump Mike Hosking in with them as well.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #94 - May 7th, 2020 at 9:36am
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Backcountry Bob wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 7:14am:
Same here, I'm really looking forward to the next few years before big numbers of overseas tourists arrive back again.


Couldn't agree more. And as MD said, far far less crazies on the road (and on the wrong side to boot!!!)

The BIGGEST problem I can see is that  pretty much the majority of NZ's  businesses have tied their profitability to the coat tails of overseas tourists.  Shut them out for a few weeks, and even large, well respected business  names begin crumbling. Makes you think that business models need a bit of a shake up if a month's no income gives most companies the wobbles.  Try farming!!! Income once a year, and that income stream happens in the middle of a drought AND a global shutdown and bingo! You have paid to have animals on your farm, not the other way around Sad
Anyway, rambling again Grin
We have certainly dodged a bullet re infection rates. No doubt about that.  But when Governments hold its citizens to account via the rule of law, they HAVE to expect its citizens to apply the same measure towards incumbent  Government.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #95 - May 7th, 2020 at 10:13am
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videohunter wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 5:26pm:
Alan you stated..."Sue Grey has looked into emerging issues."
Has the government followed legal legislation or just made up the rules as things have developed ?

Has this North Canterbury hunter brocken the rules or the law?

We all know in the pass previous issues by the New Zealand governments over time and how much misimformation has been told to the NZ public.

How ever, thank goodness we are living under this government handling of covid-19 than Donald Trumps administration of the virus and let alone other governments around the world ?

Belgium and its virus problem; according to the worldometers.info......It has a population of 11,589,623 people and a latest covid-19 death rate of 8016 which equates to 692 per one million souls. Imagine if New Zealand having about 42 % proportional figures / this could equate to some 3000 deaths or more through covid-19.

What has got up a lot of peoples noses is this mountain biking issues.....and especially those in charge who break the rules.

If a responsible hunter and his associates get a "medical cleaning rod shoved up their noses" and if the results comes back clear of any covid-19 symptoms why shouldn't they be allowed to go hunting locally.


Made them up as they go - go and have a read

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0072/latest/whole.html
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #96 - May 7th, 2020 at 10:59am
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Bon wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:48am:
So what? Common sense should prevail here. The vast majority of us played by the rules/law, call it what you will. Consider the alternatives, a situation similar to USA? or the UK, or being asked to observe a lockdown for a few weeks. It hasn't been so difficult has it? Trump, Johnson and Bridges are all tarred with the same brush and not fit to lead. Oh and lump Mike Hosking in with them as well.

To prosecute someone they must of broke a law, as in legislation.
Lawyers are still trying to work out whether Ardern actually had the legal authority to do what she did.
It’s not a matter of whether she made the right call, but rather whether or not the law caters properly for situations where that call may need to be made.
And if it doesn’t, people that breached level 4 probably can potentially not be prosecuted.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #97 - May 7th, 2020 at 11:32am
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Maddoghunter wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:59am:
Bon wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:48am:
So what? Common sense should prevail here. The vast majority of us played by the rules/law, call it what you will. Consider the alternatives, a situation similar to USA? or the UK, or being asked to observe a lockdown for a few weeks. It hasn't been so difficult has it? Trump, Johnson and Bridges are all tarred with the same brush and not fit to lead. Oh and lump Mike Hosking in with them as well.

To prosecute someone they must of broke a law, as in legislation.
Lawyers are still trying to work out whether Ardern actually had the legal authority to do what she did.
It’s not a matter of whether she made the right call, but rather whether or not the law caters properly for situations where that call may need to be made.
And if it doesn’t, people that breached level 4 probably can potentially not be prosecuted.


I agree about the legal aspect. Its not that the Gov couldn't have or shouldn't have had the legal mandate to do what it did. Its a case of if it did or didn't have the legal mandate.

I expect that the court will give leniency to the Gov's argument if there is legal doubt or uncertainty (their legal mandate is being challenged in court currently). That is is quite ordinary - doubt should benefit the respondent.

If the the Gov is found to be ultra vires (acted outside of the legislation) they will simply push through amendments -  but Im not sure about any retrospective elements if they do.

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.

Socially though, I still think that any one who has acted out side of the spirit of the rules is a bloody idiot.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #98 - May 7th, 2020 at 11:35am
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Fordy wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:13am:
videohunter wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 5:26pm:
Alan you stated..."Sue Grey has looked into emerging issues."
Has the government followed legal legislation or just made up the rules as things have developed ?

Has this North Canterbury hunter brocken the rules or the law?

We all know in the pass previous issues by the New Zealand governments over time and how much misimformation has been told to the NZ public.

How ever, thank goodness we are living under this government handling of covid-19 than Donald Trumps administration of the virus and let alone other governments around the world ?

Belgium and its virus problem; according to the worldometers.info......It has a population of 11,589,623 people and a latest covid-19 death rate of 8016 which equates to 692 per one million souls. Imagine if New Zealand having about 42 % proportional figures / this could equate to some 3000 deaths or more through covid-19.

What has got up a lot of peoples noses is this mountain biking issues.....and especially those in charge who break the rules.

If a responsible hunter and his associates get a "medical cleaning rod shoved up their noses" and if the results comes back clear of any covid-19 symptoms why shouldn't they be allowed to go hunting locally.


Made them up as they go - go and have a read

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0072/latest/whole.html


Of course they did. They had to. There is no living precedent for this. If there is blame, its previous governments who did not ensure that the law was contemporary and fit for purpose.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #99 - May 7th, 2020 at 12:36pm
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BC wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 11:35am:
Fordy wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:13am:
videohunter wrote on May 6th, 2020 at 5:26pm:
Alan you stated..."Sue Grey has looked into emerging issues."
Has the government followed legal legislation or just made up the rules as things have developed ?

Has this North Canterbury hunter brocken the rules or the law?

We all know in the pass previous issues by the New Zealand governments over time and how much misimformation has been told to the NZ public.

How ever, thank goodness we are living under this government handling of covid-19 than Donald Trumps administration of the virus and let alone other governments around the world ?

Belgium and its virus problem; according to the worldometers.info......It has a population of 11,589,623 people and a latest covid-19 death rate of 8016 which equates to 692 per one million souls. Imagine if New Zealand having about 42 % proportional figures / this could equate to some 3000 deaths or more through covid-19.

What has got up a lot of peoples noses is this mountain biking issues.....and especially those in charge who break the rules.

If a responsible hunter and his associates get a "medical cleaning rod shoved up their noses" and if the results comes back clear of any covid-19 symptoms why shouldn't they be allowed to go hunting locally.


Made them up as they go - go and have a read

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0072/latest/whole.html


Of course they did. They had to. There is no living precedent for this. If there is blame, its previous governments who did not ensure that the law was contemporary and fit for purpose.


You need to look at the big picture with an open mind and research it. I am not blaming anyone.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #100 - May 7th, 2020 at 1:32pm
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BC wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 11:32am:
Maddoghunter wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:59am:
Bon wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:48am:
So what? Common sense should prevail here. The vast majority of us played by the rules/law, call it what you will. Consider the alternatives, a situation similar to USA? or the UK, or being asked to observe a lockdown for a few weeks. It hasn't been so difficult has it? Trump, Johnson and Bridges are all tarred with the same brush and not fit to lead. Oh and lump Mike Hosking in with them as well.

To prosecute someone they must of broke a law, as in legislation.
Lawyers are still trying to work out whether Ardern actually had the legal authority to do what she did.
It’s not a matter of whether she made the right call, but rather whether or not the law caters properly for situations where that call may need to be made.
And if it doesn’t, people that breached level 4 probably can potentially not be prosecuted.


I agree about the legal aspect. Its not that the Gov couldn't have or shouldn't have had the legal mandate to do what it did. Its a case of if it did or didn't have the legal mandate.

I expect that the court will give leniency to the Gov's argument if there is legal doubt or uncertainty (their legal mandate is being challenged in court currently). That is is quite ordinary - doubt should benefit the respondent.

If the the Gov is found to be ultra vires (acted outside of the legislation) they will simply push through amendments -  but Im not sure about any retrospective elements if they do.

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.

Socially though, I still think that any one who has acted out side of the spirit of the rules is a bloody idiot.


Quite right BC .....but if being an idiot was a crime/offence then most of us would have been in the hinaki a number of times?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #101 - May 7th, 2020 at 1:48pm
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I too have enjoyed not having the masses of imported people we usually see here - and in a selfish sense, long may it continue.

As for the government's handling of all this, they did what they saw fit to do in a 'moving situation'. They used fear, encouragement and a lot of self congratulatory language throughout all this - it is after all an election year.
I see Dr Ashley Bloomfield's image is now to appear on tee shirts, pillow cases and womens undergarments - it is after all .... an election year and 'heroes' do no harm to the incumbent.

People also saw fit to do what they chose to do - some obeyed the rules to the letter, others less so, but mostly we were responsible to ourselves and behaved moderately responsible.
I don't really care if it was 'law' or just 'rules' - distancing yourself from others just made sense.

There will be questions (flack) throughout all this, and especially now we appear to be out of it - and so there should be. We need to put things in place for next time, and to do that we need to wring it out and make sure we get it right.

From my point, looking at 'self isolation' and all else that went on - we 'lucked it' this time ......... at least to this point.

And as for hunting - I doubt that ever stopped. Been down flogging Maori wood and the pile of dismembered deer and pig carcases suggests that nothing much changed for some people.
I got no problem with that - if they get 'snapped' they can't argue the rules - "Guilty as charged yer Honour."

Gonna stay in my 'bubble' and keep my kid out of school as long as possibel - still some 'mileage' in this I think.


  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #102 - May 7th, 2020 at 2:13pm
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Max wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 1:32pm:
BC wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 11:32am:
Maddoghunter wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:59am:
Bon wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:48am:
So what? Common sense should prevail here. The vast majority of us played by the rules/law, call it what you will. Consider the alternatives, a situation similar to USA? or the UK, or being asked to observe a lockdown for a few weeks. It hasn't been so difficult has it? Trump, Johnson and Bridges are all tarred with the same brush and not fit to lead. Oh and lump Mike Hosking in with them as well.

To prosecute someone they must of broke a law, as in legislation.
Lawyers are still trying to work out whether Ardern actually had the legal authority to do what she did.
It’s not a matter of whether she made the right call, but rather whether or not the law caters properly for situations where that call may need to be made.
And if it doesn’t, people that breached level 4 probably can potentially not be prosecuted.


I agree about the legal aspect. Its not that the Gov couldn't have or shouldn't have had the legal mandate to do what it did. Its a case of if it did or didn't have the legal mandate.

I expect that the court will give leniency to the Gov's argument if there is legal doubt or uncertainty (their legal mandate is being challenged in court currently). That is is quite ordinary - doubt should benefit the respondent.

If the the Gov is found to be ultra vires (acted outside of the legislation) they will simply push through amendments -  but Im not sure about any retrospective elements if they do.

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.

Socially though, I still think that any one who has acted out side of the spirit of the rules is a bloody idiot.


Quite right BC .....but if being an idiot was a crime/offence then most of us would have been in the hinaki a number of times?


Exactly.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #103 - May 7th, 2020 at 4:32pm
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300006616/legal-challenge-ov...

I fully agree with this legal challenge. If the government have acted ultra vires what is to stop them  acting that way in future?  it could happen with firearms laws for one.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #104 - May 7th, 2020 at 4:33pm
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and today I heard from mate who lives nearby that some people were shooting ducks at wainono lagoon on opening weekend..........  gee I wonder if "somebody" is going to jump in and offer them legal support to get off and charges??????
thats DOC administered land.
gamebird season LEGALLY closed
using firearm on land without permission
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #105 - May 7th, 2020 at 4:36pm
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Micky Duck wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 4:33pm:
and today I heard from mate who lives nearby that some people were shooting ducks at wainono lagoon on opening weekend..........  gee I wonder if "somebody" is going to jump in and offer them legal support to get off and charges??????
thats DOC administered land.
gamebird season LEGALLY closed
using firearm on land without permission


Hearsay is not admissible evidence in court.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #106 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:16pm
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Good chance Conservation land will be open again next week.  Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #107 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:27pm
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headcase wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 6:16pm:
Good chance Conservation land will be open again next week.  Smiley


Make my bed up. Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #108 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:35pm
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FUSION wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 4:32pm:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300006616/legal-challenge-ov...

I fully agree with this legal challenge. If the government have acted ultra vires what is to stop them  acting that way in future?  it could happen with firearms laws for one.

There's the danger, the government has done an extraordinary job of 'selling us the cure' - I already see any opposition being scorned, slapped down - almost treasonous.
There must be 'opposition', another point of view - the flaws must be examined and the findings laid out on the rug for all to see less our ignorance be complete.

And our voice unheard ................  Undecided

  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #109 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:37pm
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headcase wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 6:16pm:
Good chance Conservation land will be open again next week.  Smiley

Choyce - I'll go and flog wood off Conservation Land  Smiley
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #110 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:45pm
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SF90 wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 6:35pm:
FUSION wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 4:32pm:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300006616/legal-challenge-ov...

I fully agree with this legal challenge. If the government have acted ultra vires what is to stop them  acting that way in future?  it could happen with firearms laws for one.

There's the danger, the government has done an extraordinary job of 'selling us the cure' - I already see any opposition being scorned, slapped down - almost treasonous.
There must be 'opposition', another point of view - the flaws must be examined and the findings laid out on the rug for all to see less our ignorance be complete.

And our voice unheard ................  Undecided



The power of Jacinda mania!

all the  Labour Party supporters on here better start practicing to hunt with a bow Grin
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #111 - May 7th, 2020 at 6:46pm
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FUSION wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 4:32pm:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300006616/legal-challenge-ov...

I fully agree with this legal challenge. If the government have acted ultra vires what is to stop them  acting that way in future?  it could happen with firearms laws for one.


Yep and they just got caught with their pants down - the bulk of what they did was unlawful - so those who were arrested for hunting, surfing and other criminal activities should be able to successfully challenge.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/barry-s...
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #112 - May 7th, 2020 at 7:30pm
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And the checkpoints and legality of this was exposed here with leaked emails from police

https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/05/04/exclusive-government-and-police-lockdown-actions...
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #113 - May 7th, 2020 at 7:52pm
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It seems that what we were saying was correct all along and the ban on hunting and fishing was unlawful. It was a shame the NZDA climbed into me when I questioned it in the NZ Herald without thinking for one second we might have been right. They followed the government line and aquessed when surly there role should have been to advocate for hunting. i know of some who left the NZDA because of there wimpish advocacy not only on this issue but on 1080 especially the Molesworth affair.. It seems once again it will be over to a political party like us to do their job for them and try and stop the next blanket poisoning of what animals are  left on Molesworth. The NZDA are missing in action!
https://www.outdoorsparty.co.nz/rioting-in-the-streets-or-paradise-in-the-great-...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322620
NZ Deerstalkers Association president Trevor Chappell said the comments were "inappropriate at this time".

He said his group was "opposed" to the NZ Outdoor Party's view, and that they had informed their members they should be following the government's rules on staying home.

"If everybody plays their part and stays home we should be able to get through this Covid-19 outbreak and our members will be able to get out hunting again."

Chappell said nobody wanted to put emergency service workers at risk by putting themselves in potential danger.

http://suegrey.co.nz/index.php/2020/04/23/when-the-cure-is-more-disruptive-than-...
All those people who the police have prosecuted hahhahahah
So the chap who went hunting that started this thread should have the charges dropped.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #114 - May 7th, 2020 at 7:53pm
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #115 - May 7th, 2020 at 8:45pm
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Just reading that Sue Gray report thing you posted Allan, some things just don't add up, here is a cut and paste out of it.

The good news is that despite the Covid hype, the 2020 overall death rates for most countries are similar to death rate trends in other years. All that has changed is the reported cause of death, with many pneumonia or coronary deaths now reported as death by Covid (often because covid was present, whether or not it was the primary cause).

The bit i don't understand with this is if the death rates were the same as other years why would they be need to build mass graves and have mass buries in parks and so on?. And the hospitals have been full to the brim and so on? Surely this is not going on every year? So basically I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out this report is clearly rubbish!!!!!
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #116 - May 7th, 2020 at 8:46pm
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Well, you aren't quite there yet Alan. Your argument is still only based on legal opinion and has yet to be tested.

In any event, I still hold to my previous view:

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.

Socially though, I still think that any one who has acted out side of the spirit of the rules is a bloody idiot.





  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #117 - May 7th, 2020 at 9:24pm
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Alan - it looks like the Crown LA advice relates to the 1st directive/Health Notice on 25 March

The 2nd, on 3 April, was not challenged by Crown Law and it was that one that specifically prohibited hunting and other activities. (And its the second one that Trevor Chappell refers to)

Covid 19 coronavirus: Leaked Crown Law documents question legal force of alert level 4 rules

Quote:
"The key point being, between March 24 and April 3 much of the "Lockdown rules" actually had no enforceability in law - which is what Crown Law is saying, and which is why the new notice had to be issued," Professor Geddis said.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #118 - May 7th, 2020 at 9:47pm
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BC wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:46pm:
In any event, I still hold to my previous view:

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.





What great democracy which you speak of are we living in?

So the Government in your opinion have been acting lawfully (not legally)?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #119 - May 7th, 2020 at 10:38pm
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Fordy wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 9:47pm:
BC wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:46pm:
In any event, I still hold to my previous view:

The fundamental argument (and I agree with it) is that in a democracy (and we are still a great one) Gov must only and always act legally through a mandate from parliament.





What great democracy which you speak of are we living in?

So the Government in your opinion have been acting lawfully (not legally)?


No. What  I said was it (the Gov) ought to always act within the laws because that is a basic principle of a democracy. I do not  know if it has been or not because I have seen nothing beyond an opinion.

If it has not, the voters will decide what should be done about it.

And yes, we are still a great democracy by any standard.
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #120 - May 7th, 2020 at 10:40pm
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allroundslayer wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 8:45pm:
Just reading that Sue Gray report thing you posted Allan, some things just don't add up, here is a cut and paste out of it.

The good news is that despite the Covid hype, the 2020 overall death rates for most countries are similar to death rate trends in other years. All that has changed is the reported cause of death, with many pneumonia or coronary deaths now reported as death by Covid (often because covid was present, whether or not it was the primary cause).

The bit i don't understand with this is if the death rates were the same as other years why would they be need to build mass graves and have mass buries in parks and so on?. And the hospitals have been full to the brim and so on? Surely this is not going on every year? So basically I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out this report is clearly rubbish!!!!!

Yea the US have always had mass graves.
Anyone not claimed, or un wanted. If the family can't afford a funeral, many reasons they get taken to an island that the state of New York bought and buried in mass graves. 60 million people die worldwide every year.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #121 - May 8th, 2020 at 6:31am
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DHDS (Deerhunter Duckshooter) wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:40pm:
Just reading that Sue Gray report thing you posted Allan, some things just don't add up, here is a cut and paste out of it.

The good news is that despite the Covid hype, the 2020 overall death rates for most countries are similar to death rate trends in other years. All that has changed is the reported cause of death, with many pneumonia or coronary deaths now reported as death by Covid (often because covid was present, whether or not it was the primary cause).

The bit i don't understand with this is if the death rates were the same as other years why would they be need to build mass graves and have mass buries in parks and so on?. And the hospitals have been full to the brim and so on? Surely this is not going on every year? So basically I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out this report is clearly rubbish!!!!! 
Yea the US have always had mass graves.
Anyone not claimed, or un wanted. If the family can't afford a funeral, many reasons they get taken to an island that the state of New York bought and buried in mass graves. 60 million people die worldwide every year.


Wot about in spain how they are using the local skate parks as  make shift holding grounds for the dead? is this common practise Deerhunter duck shooter?
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #122 - May 8th, 2020 at 6:38am
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allroundslayer wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:31am:
DHDS (Deerhunter Duckshooter) wrote on May 7th, 2020 at 10:40pm:
Just reading that Sue Gray report thing you posted Allan, some things just don't add up, here is a cut and paste out of it.

The good news is that despite the Covid hype, the 2020 overall death rates for most countries are similar to death rate trends in other years. All that has changed is the reported cause of death, with many pneumonia or coronary deaths now reported as death by Covid (often because covid was present, whether or not it was the primary cause).

The bit i don't understand with this is if the death rates were the same as other years why would they be need to build mass graves and have mass buries in parks and so on?. And the hospitals have been full to the brim and so on? Surely this is not going on every year? So basically I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to work out this report is clearly rubbish!!!!! 
Yea the US have always had mass graves.
Anyone not claimed, or un wanted. If the family can't afford a funeral, many reasons they get taken to an island that the state of New York bought and buried in mass graves. 60 million people die worldwide every year.


Wot about in spain how they are using the local skate parks as  make shift holding grounds for the dead? is this common practise Deerhunter duck shooter?


No that is not common practice Allroundslayer
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #123 - May 8th, 2020 at 9:53am
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OIA request to DOC.

Dear Minister, Lou and Martin

Please could you provide all relevant information (including advice, analysis, correspondence and any minutes or notes of meetings) which explains why DOC decided to purport to close public access to land managed by DOC during the recent covid response

Please include information which shows the legal authority relied on, and any assessment of risks and benefits for physical, mental and spiritual health and wellbeing of restricting access to NZs great outdoors and activities such as walking, camping, hunting and fishing .

Please also provide any assessment or other information you have about the importance of wild food for feeding NZ families, including with the imminent recession, and what consideration DOC has given to ceasing the poisoning of public land, ecosystems and the food chain for public good considerations.

Please also provide information to show DOCs budget for predator control for last year and the next three years and any information to show how the objective and/or choice of method could or will be changed to protect safe food gathering, provide more local employment and ensure "social licence" for DOCs pest control activities.

Please also provide the outcome of any DOC surveys and other public engagement in the last 5 years that assess social licence (or otherwise) for the use of 1080 and other poisons on public law.

This request is made on behalf of the NZ Outdoors Party which seeks alternative solutions to the current "non-Green" landscape aerial spreading of poisons such as 1080 which are deadly to humans and all mammals, and which contaminate ecosystems with toxic fluoride.

Thank you and kind regards

  

Co-leader NZ Outdoors Party http://www.outdoorsparty.co.nz
Book. Born to The Outdoors http://www.alan-simmons.com/book
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #124 - May 8th, 2020 at 3:09pm
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reading the above a fella could be forgiven for thinking Marty was back Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #125 - May 8th, 2020 at 3:16pm
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PRESS RELEASE
NZ OUTDOORS PARTY
8/05/2020

When the Government Breaks the Law - The Illegality of the Covid Rules



The New Zealand Outdoors Party is stunned that the government proceeded with strict lockdown rules and threats of prosecution despite preliminary Crown legal advice that its plans were unlawful. 

The lockdown rules prohibiting outdoors activities such as swimming, fishing, hunting and boating were very wide. "I could not understand how solitary outdoor activities could spread a virus." says NZ Outdoors Party co-leader and lawyer Sue Grey. "It was frustrating looking at the calm water across the road from my home, and being told it was suddenly illegal to paddleboard or kayak there". 

As more evidence became available, it became clear that early Covid models had greatly exaggerated the risks. Grey started researching and quickly found that the powers relied on to prohibit outdoor activities only applied to congregations. "The law made sense. The government's notices did not" says Grey.   

Grey sent her analysis to the Prime Minister and Attorney General and asked them to explain if she was wrong.  After receiving no reply, she went paddle boarding. "It’s important to walk the walk to stand by your beliefs" says Grey. "It shook me that our long established rights and freedoms suddenly felt so fragile. I took a pile of legal analysis with me in a plastic bag, in case I was "dobbed in" or challenged by the Police. It has shaken me even more to now learn that our Prime Minister and government appear to have deliberately misled the public. How dare they encourage people to "dob in" others for breaking fake laws. It’s fundamental to the rule of law that the government must obey the law. The failure to do so is tyranny."

The New Zealand Outdoors Party has released a series of press releases and videos, and sent a series of correspondence with Attorney-General David Parker and Crown Law, asking for release of legal advice in the public interest. It’s very important that the public understand the process and advice relied on by the government, and what respect the Crown gives to the law. "How can the public be expected to comply with rules when there are doubts about their legality, and whether the Crown is misleading us" says Sue Grey.

https://www.outdoorsparty.co.nz/coronavirus-people-should-be-fighting-over-seeds...
https://www.outdoorsparty.co.nz/rioting-in-the-streets-or-paradise-in-the-great-...
Sue Grey legal advice on video. 5400 views.      https://youtu.be/pIRsHdHJNoI

New Zealanders were told to stay in their homes under threats of prosecution if they went outdoors to enjoy activities. As a result trampers, boaters, hunters, fishers and many other outdoors people missed much of the prime autumn season.
People seemed afraid to question authority. Perhaps it was the government messaging that was designed to make it feel unpatriotic to ask questions. Even national representative hunting and fishing bodies acquiesced.

“We should always feel safe to ask questions”, says Sue Grey. “If we don't step up and exercise our freedom of speech and other rights and freedoms, they will be eroded. We cannot allow the scenario where people feel they will be punished if they don't stay silent.  Even with well intentioned and principled rules, there can be an overreach of authority. If rules cross this line, they become an abuse of power. We all need to step up and take back our power.

I'm still waiting for the Prime Minister and Attorney General to reply to my request. We've only seen Crown advice leaked by a brave whistle-blower. The longer they take, the more it suggests they have no firm legal foundation for their actions.”

"It is fundamental to a democratic society that the government must obey the law. The legal basis for the Crown to interfere with our rights and freedoms should be very clear. It’s extremely concerning that the Crown appears to have shopped  around for legal advice to try to justify its actions. I was suspicious when the Prime Minister encouraged members of the public to “dob in” New Zealanders who engaged in these activities. This is so contrary to our Kiwi culture. It now appears that the government knew there was no sound legal basis for their rules and the Prime Minister incited false arrests by the Police.

We are in new constitutional law territory here. No doubt much more will unravel in coming days.

It’s already created an interesting situation for Minister of Health David Clark who was rebuked for flaunting the fake laws. Even more concerning is the position of those who were arrested or prosecuted for breaching these fake laws.  "Let’s hope the government promptly steps up, reviews its position and withdraws all such charges", says Grey.


For further information contact:



Sue Grey LLB (Hons), BSc
Co-Leader NZ Outdoors Party
www.outdoorsparty.co.nz
PO Box 1653 Nelson, NZ
pH +64 22 6910586
suegreylawyer@gmail.com
www.suegrey.co.nz
  

Co-leader NZ Outdoors Party http://www.outdoorsparty.co.nz
Book. Born to The Outdoors http://www.alan-simmons.com/book
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #126 - May 8th, 2020 at 3:18pm
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Thats certainly a lot to ask for in one bite.  Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #127 - May 8th, 2020 at 4:45pm
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Fark, time for ‘all & sundry’ to get out hunting for sure!!! 👀 😂
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #128 - May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm
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Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?
  

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.......
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #129 - May 8th, 2020 at 7:17pm
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BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


You would be lucky, they wouldn't release it Wink
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #130 - May 8th, 2020 at 7:31pm
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BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


If you don’t like it you know where the door is.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #131 - May 8th, 2020 at 8:18pm
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BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


The irony; unrelenting support for Jacinda ignoring the rules of law. Yet when it suits....
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #132 - May 8th, 2020 at 8:32pm
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Lauries Hut wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 8:18pm:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


The irony; unrelenting support for Jacinda ignoring the rules of law. Yet when it suits....


Then there is the bigger picture in that swift action was needed. Could there have been a better way with laws that were not written when modern transport and 10 of thousands of potential doners threatened a tsunami of infections? The unknown and the potential were strong drivers to protect public health..
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #133 - May 8th, 2020 at 9:21pm
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In that respect tend to agree.
However I suspect a significant part of the reason the lockdown succeeded, was because the majority of us respect the rule of law. And by default we expect or assumed the same of our leaders.

For a global superstar of communication, she could have easily communicated what was required and why. Without the need to bullshit, and threaten.
And let’s call a spade a spade we have been repeatedly lied to.

I can’t be bothered reading all the commentary on it, opinion from the majority of the press has little value, and I don’t have time to read the legal opinion of those who count.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m very happy with the place we’re sitting right now in terms of the COVID battle.
I’m not happy with the deceit.
It’s yet to be proven if the economic cost will be worth it.
We’re yet to see analysis where comparison is made between lives saved, and those lost in the longer term due to the shutdown of our health system, increased suicides etc.
And, I guarantee we’re far from being out of the woods, or at the end of the lockdown.

And I would think of significant importantance for those in love with Jacinda’s stardust; with the exception of dictatorships I cant think of a leader of any business or govt, who successfully led by applying one rule for themselves and another for the rest. (Long term)
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #134 - May 8th, 2020 at 9:34pm
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Lauries Hut wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 8:18pm:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


The irony; unrelenting support for Jacinda ignoring the rules of law. Yet when it suits....


Justify this "unrelenting support for Jacinda ignoring the rules of law".

If you look back I don't support the ignoring of the rules of law, I simply say that its not proven and that in any event society on the whole seem to approve. Society approving the lock down rules does not justify a breach of law but the mitigating factors of urgency and uncertainty make it understandable so long as it was not wilful.

You will also see that I said that Government behaving inside the law is a basic tenant of democracy. That it hasn't  has not yet been tested in Court, but if they have breached the law parliament and the voters will decide their punishment. That is what I have said.






  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #135 - May 8th, 2020 at 9:37pm
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Rich wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 7:31pm:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


If you don’t like it you know where the door is.


Im happy to stay as a counter point to blatant politicking and blinded subjectivity thank you.

But I would rather be talking about hunting. You?
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #136 - May 8th, 2020 at 10:35pm
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I’m trying to work out how this hasn’t been thrown in the camp fire yet.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #137 - May 9th, 2020 at 6:33am
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BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 9:37pm:
Rich wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 7:31pm:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


If you don’t like it you know where the door is.


Im happy to stay as a counter point to blatant politicking and blinded subjectivity thank you.

But I would rather be talking about hunting. You?


Yes we all need to remember that we will never agree on everything from gun laws to who is the best prime minister.
I even disagree with my wife on politics sometimes.

I don't agree with BC on some things, but I would be gutted if he didn't post his stories on here anymore. Sure it wouldn't bother Tilly though as long as she gets to go hunting.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #138 - May 9th, 2020 at 7:18am
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DHDS (Deerhunter Duckshooter) wrote on May 9th, 2020 at 6:33am:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 9:37pm:
Rich wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 7:31pm:
BC wrote on May 8th, 2020 at 6:59pm:
Are there any forum rules about the owner spamming his own public forum?? Perhaps we could get an opinion from Crown Law?


If you don’t like it you know where the door is.


Im happy to stay as a counter point to blatant politicking and blinded subjectivity thank you.

But I would rather be talking about hunting. You?


Yes we all need to remember that we will never agree on everything from gun laws to who is the best prime minister.
I even disagree with my wife on politics sometimes.

I don't agree with BC on some things, but I would be gutted if he didn't post his stories on here anymore. Sure it wouldn't bother Tilly though as long as she gets to go hunting.


Tilly has slept through all of this Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #139 - May 9th, 2020 at 10:57am
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well B.C. the thought had crossed my mind....
but more this way.....if a post/link is going to be lets say 90% POLITICAL.....well then it SHOULD be moved into the political forum section...should it not?????
if a post/link is 90% Outdoors party   maybe it BELONGS in the outdoors party  forum section????? should it not?????

this forum has got sections for political discussions.its also got sections for Outdoors party discussions...fair enough its Alans site after all...... I also notice that 5G is the last thing put in there and this....for want of a better word propoganda/grandstanding/party political broadcast Wink did not get put in there.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #140 - May 9th, 2020 at 12:26pm
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Same rules for everyone. Political or 1080 posts or any other topic get to stay in the Hunting section for a few days to gain some traction with readers/posters if they are of interest and then get slotted into a more appropriate section.  Smiley
  

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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #141 - May 9th, 2020 at 1:11pm
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After reading a lot of this thread Alan's party has lost any chance of getting my vote.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #142 - May 9th, 2020 at 2:48pm
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thankyou H.C.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #143 - Jun 7th, 2020 at 11:49am
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Ronny wrote on May 9th, 2020 at 1:11pm:
After reading a lot of this thread Alan's party has lost any chance of getting my vote.


Lets face it. It would have been a wasted vote anyway.
While I like Alans passion and support a lot of what he stands for does anyone think reaching the 5% mark at the election for the Outdoors party is remotly possible? I will Vote for Act knowing every vote will count.
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #144 - Jun 17th, 2020 at 10:16pm
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What about using your second vote? It is MMP afterall. Or are you indicating that you intend to use your Party vote for Act and Electorial vote for the Act member in your area? Sometimes i think we should have stuck to FPP. Save the drama? Just thinking out aloud...
And about the hunter who was arrested during level 3 coming out of the hills, i think he may have had a court appearance in June if i remember reading the initial story? I would hope he just gets a warning and that's that? Just like the two trampers and many others that breached the initial period of lock down. The other ones mentioned in the media were not even charged...
  
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Re: Do anyone know who was arrested for hunting
Reply #145 - Jun 20th, 2020 at 11:32pm
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As I don't live in Ebsom the most important of the two votes is the party vote. So yes party vote Act. Probably vote National for my electorate vote ( under duress)
  
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