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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter (Read 4995 times)
Shankspony
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #45 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 1:03am
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sidney wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:27pm:
Apple get a grip mate..  the argument is about the removal of introduced species - because of negative environmental effect..

So your solution is to ignore the argument?  Even when flawed?  Way to go with advancing the cause mate - why don't you just abandon rationality in favour of emotional response? 

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Im not going to say that correct farming practices cant build soils. I think though if you look at history the major effect of agriculture has been an overall soil loss.


Anybody ever composted organic material before?

What do you think it turns into?  Where do you think that soil comes from? - yes of course it has mineral content, but it is primarily from the breakdown of organic material.

Conventional cropping and tillage reduces soil quality and quantity, and given that even pastural farming has moved to intensive cut and carry most of the world over - then yes most agricultural practice has resulted in soil degradation.

Not the case with rotational intensive pastural grazing systems though and dairy is the best at increasing soil quality and quantity.  You lot all complain about the toxicity of excess nutrient from dairy - don't you?  Nutrient builds fertility.

I have been involved in about 7 dairy farm conversions.  Every cropping operation suffers from low organic material content in the soil and lowered soil quality/quantity.  We know how long it takes before that is restored to performance after conversion.

And the soil level just keep increasing... its the only form of agriculture that builds soil fertility.

So the argument to remove animals for the reason of adverse environmental effect is simply wrong.... like everything too much can be a problem but not for the reasons this clown argues..



Kind of not what I was saying.

I wasn't talking about dairy. And what you are saying is only relevant to very easy contour high quality land dependant on soil type. Thats a small part of our total agricultural land area. As an example Waikato peat soils can loose 3.7 t  of C per hectare a year if I remember correctly. And water quality measure almost always record a higher level of Suspended sediment in farming and pine areas than from native forest. The fact is that the issue of soil and carbon loss is going to affect grazing of hill country land considerably and even intensely farmed dairy where they rely on cropping to supplement. Pine trees are not an improvement either where you are clear felling every 25-30 years as proven at Gisborne.
I suspect that the push for pine plantation etc is more about ensuring land is no longer available for Grazing and come 25 years it may only be possible to revert that land to native if the green elements have their way.
Some interesting innovative thinkers out there, and I know of one landowner who is making $30,000+ a year out of harvesting goats from under his regenerating hill country forests.
Could be that some form of farming under permanent tree cover is a future possibility?
Which is the irony this F&B clown as you say, will never get due to his bias, that farming historically noxious animal species may well be our best solution.
The route you have gone down is one very positive avenue worth looking at from more farmers as well. But its going to take a lot of people getting their heads around at least a change in activities around supplemental feed and coming to the realisation that they may have to give up grazing of steeper aspects of their land.
  
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Shankspony
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #46 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 1:31am
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This is a really good overview of the total situation. its American based but it shows its not just us talking about it, its a worldwide issue. This guy is both a soil conservationist and a farmer.
And on A NZ plane it rings a fair few bells the issues he talks of.

One thing that I agree with is that national regulation/ a one size fits all situation/ Does not fix the issues. it needs to be soil by soil, region by region based solutions.
Getting those in power to understand that is near on impossible though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrD8LrNeov0
  
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sidney
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #47 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 3:01am
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Yep...  its not the nitrates produced... its the nitrates not captured that are the issue.

This isn't news to anyone other that the slow of attention span and those with opinions formed in wilful ignorance.  Like most politicians and the current crop of environmental simpletons.
  

"But thus I counsel you, my friends: Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. They are people of a low sort and stock; the hangmen and the bloodhound look out of their faces. Mistrust all who talk much of their justice!"  Nietzsche
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #48 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 3:21am
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The thing is, if you cant/dont capture the nitrates/carbon/Sediments, then it is the N/C/S produced that is the problem.
And there are still a sizeable percentage of the farming community who are begrudgingly doing the minimum and dragging their feet. Whole communities are not talking about this in a positive light yet. Mean while we have this green element who are pushing forward with their myopic crusade in directions that are not helpful/ not workable and don't make sense to those on the ground who can see the pain and suffering/ disenfranchisement those "solutions" will cause.... which increases the pushback and foot dragging.
As he said in the interview, its expensive to make these changes. Ill add probably a reduction in income for the average farmer too. the sensible thing to do for stability and quick action is to financially help. yet we are in this attitude of force change and bugger the farmers if they cant survive.
  
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #49 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 5:49am
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sidney wrote on Dec 7th, 2018 at 12:23am:
There is not too much though is there.....  Output cannot exceed input

There is only to much in localised areas at times.

I have always said that land use should be rotated in and out of intensive pastural use to enhance long term sustainability.


As a matter of interest, how are the amounts of cow poo sprayed onto paddocks measured to give an amount that isnt too much.. Is it a hand x thumb method or are there precise measurements made?
  

“We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #50 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 9:03am
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Ohhh wow forgive me Sidney. I’m sorry I thought I had a hunting website..I was more concerned about the fact of 1080 over the whole public land estate, and ridding the areas of red deer...
But no silly me ..!
Sydney I know where I went wrong , I googled house and garden , instead of hunting...sorry.
So tell me , did u plant any carrots this year ? U could wash them in your carbon sink befor you put them where the sun doesn’t bleach them ..🐑👈
  
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #51 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 9:50am
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headcase wrote on Dec 7th, 2018 at 5:49am:
sidney wrote on Dec 7th, 2018 at 12:23am:
There is not too much though is there.....  Output cannot exceed input

There is only to much in localised areas at times.

I have always said that land use should be rotated in and out of intensive pastural use to enhance long term sustainability.


As a matter of interest, how are the amounts of cow poo sprayed onto paddocks measured to give an amount that isnt too much.. Is it a hand x thumb method or are there precise measurements made?


I forget what the calculation is but its somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 of the total farm area that is usually allocated to effluent spreading under irrigation.  But every region may have slightly different specs...
  

"But thus I counsel you, my friends: Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. They are people of a low sort and stock; the hangmen and the bloodhound look out of their faces. Mistrust all who talk much of their justice!"  Nietzsche
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #52 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 5:08am
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no worries fella's!! were gunna plant x amount of million trees within a time frame! so no pollutants be they carbon or organic...?
The DOC land as a non play ground for hunters as mentioned earlier, I have always concluded that these tree huggers are kinda girlish around the average kiwi bloke & endeavouring to close the door on us, is a part of their plan! note also something like 260 million is being put aside to open up more country to mountain bikers etc. i suppose to squeeze us out? that is the real aspect of all this... them n us!! forget carbon emissions... just keeps a few in a job!! & a smoke screen. My 2c worth Roll Eyes
  

sometimes i sits & thinks, & sometimes i just sits. never miss a good chance to shut-up
when your dead you don't know your dead. All the pain is felt by others. Same thing happens when your stupid!
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #53 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 11:46am
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Interesting reading but how about a reality check .... Nothing we do here will make the slightest difference to the earths atmosphere , we're just to bloody insignificant . Our carbon footprint is falling on a percentage basis and will continue to do so regardless of how much carbon we try to produce.

Secondly is carbon the problem or a symptom of the real problem that knowone wants to talk about ??? The real problem is population ! It took 200,000years to reach a population of 1 billion and in a bit less than the last 200 years we've turned that into 7 billion .? This is the issue and about half of the number is in Asia and over the next 100 years Asia alone is expected to reach 7 billion It' the real problem and its a big f'n problem at that. 7 BILLION POTENTIALLY STARVING PEOPLE on our doorstep in 100 years , who give a flying F.... about which tree stores more carbon !!

Why arent people talking about over population ?? Not pc i guess !
  

alcohol doesn't agree with me , but i sure do enjoy the argument!
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #54 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 7:40pm
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I look at all of that type of reasoning and argument as an excuse to do nothing.  Smiley

  

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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #55 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 12:35am
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This is interesting to play around with, if you have details on a farm: Farm Carbon Footprint Calculator, from Lincoln Uni
  

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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #56 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:02am
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Just completed ....absolute crock of rubbish,
  
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Shankspony
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #57 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:13pm
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What makes you say that?

Completed it too. could find a few faults and it didn't have any ability to subtract on farm carbon sinks other than telling how many H of trees needed. But gave a very rough idea of wether i could say im carbon neutral or not if I put two and two together.
  
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #58 - Dec 15th, 2018 at 1:04am
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After completing it 2 times now , roughly same result,
Need to plant 600ha trees, have impact of 800 flights from auk....London.,
To me very biased, towards the green side,
  
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Shankspony
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Re: Letter in forest and Bird Newsletter
Reply #59 - Dec 15th, 2018 at 5:35am
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Yeah so what it doesn't seem to ask is area you have in established trees, or such. Figure you should subtract that yourself from the amount they recommend you need.
Not sure what else they take into account, would be good to have a section about it so you can understand it better. All up if my understanding is correct im about carbon neutral or slightly negative.
  
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