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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Engine sage.! (Read 3663 times)
SF90
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #30 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:19pm
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headcase wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
And I thought we were getting somewhere as a group. Are we not big enough to just move on and make the most of a win win for all parties, and accept our win has far reaching consequences for the future of herds in New Zealand.  To persist in pulling this apart on the front page of our forum strikes me as inconsequential and petty.

We as a collective group representing hunting in this country should be bigger than this.. Lets get on with it.  Smiley


Lets get on with what ? ............ I thought we were.

I've argued both sides of the coin on this, don't know how to be fairer than that

People will draw their own conclusions re this subject and it will die a natural death when something worthier comes along.

And, 'bowmad' is correct, just 'shooting the breeze' mate - do that sometimes when I'm in the mood.
Same as you, I expect.

And as for us as a group 'representing hunting in this country' - I believe support for the Thar Foundation is the only thing I ever seen the majority of us in accord over.





  
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #31 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:08am
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Now that we have actually got the Minister to the table, its not smart to piss the arbitrator off.

Negativity is accumulative, and what we actually want is a positive culture around hunting, not a negative one.
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #32 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:07am
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SF90 wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
headcase wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
And I thought we were getting somewhere as a group. Are we not big enough to just move on and make the most of a win win for all parties, and accept our win has far reaching consequences for the future of herds in New Zealand.  To persist in pulling this apart on the front page of our forum strikes me as inconsequential and petty.

We as a collective group representing hunting in this country should be bigger than this.. Lets get on with it.  Smiley


Lets get on with what ? ............ I thought we were.

I've argued both sides of the coin on this, don't know how to be fairer than that

People will draw their own conclusions re this subject and it will die a natural death when something worthier comes along.

And, 'bowmad' is correct, just 'shooting the breeze' mate - do that sometimes when I'm in the mood.
Same as you, I expect.

And as for us as a group 'representing hunting in this country' - I believe support for the Thar Foundation is the only thing I ever seen the majority of us in accord over.






Couldn’t agree more , sf90
  
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headcase
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #33 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:29am
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bowmad wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:39pm:
headcase wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
And I thought we were getting somewhere as a group. Are we not big enough to just move on and make the most of a win win for all parties, and accept our win has far reaching consequences for the future of herds in New Zealand.  To persist in pulling this apart on the front page of our forum strikes me as inconsequential and petty.

We as a collective group representing hunting in this country should be bigger than this.. Lets get on with it.  Smiley

Headcase this is not "the group" just a forum where people shoot the breeze. The Tahr foundation and GAC are the group and many here support them, lets not shoot each other and stay behind them. If anyone steps over the line, delete it, if not live with other peoples opinions. Me, I am old enough to have been called most things by far better people than her. Some I've actually deserved as well. Roll on the election  Wink


To make a few things clear. That was my opinion just as you have one.. I did not write my post as a mod but as a member of the forum and the hunting fraternity. I joined the forum as you not as a mod but naked so to speak,, as a person who wanted to comment and contribute. Most of what I write here is my opinion, and acceptance of others opinion is a given but that doesnt stop me commenting. So in the spirit of just ''shooting the breeze'' away I go again..  Smiley

I do believe we are part of a broad group, made up of many like minded people who appreciate being able at will, to roam in the wilderness or fish the waters that NZ has to offer.

The forum itself is the face of a large number of people and opinions, and a place visited every day not only by forum members, but a large number of others such as The Minister, her staff, other interested politicians, and journalists etc.  What we say here sets a tone for all sorts of peoples opinions on hunters.

The place is also a sounding board for people who are in politics or govern organistions such as the GAC, The Tahr Foundation, NZDA, and eg. the Outdoors Party, etc. We are the people that make up and support those organisations and give them their clout. Without us they would be less, and have less to say, reducing their influemce while  sitting at a round table with the Minister.

The negotiations they have just been through in the last 10 days are potentaiily only the beginning, not just with this minister but potentially with the following. The start of a fruitfull discouse for hunters, fishermen and other like minded into the future. As  negotiating partners on our behalf Im sure they would rather go into these discussions in the knowledge that the people they represent are not souring the pitch before they have even begun talking together.

If The Minister has intentionally used the ''c'' word then she comes with much bias and we as a group need to be better than that and not fall to those standards. If she has not intentionally reffered to hunters with a derogatory term, then we have no need to exacerbate the situation. Rather, bring some dignity to the broader discussion and educate the Minister as to the importance of preserving not only the native species but also the species that provide recreation and food for so many in this country.

Im full of optimism that the past days show that combined, all the people interested in, to use a broad term ''hunting and fishing'' when they pull together as a group have the will and the persistence to be heard..  Smiley
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #34 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:29am
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I agree largely with what you say, the only way is forward - but do not forget the Minister we are talking about tried to shaft us in a very big way.

Forgive, if you choose, hold out the olive branch should you choose, but do not forget - nor should you roll over in appeasement for you might well find she will kick you in the guts.

She is a representative of the people, yet has shown a bias toward her own personal agenda and her failure in achieving that must rankle.
She will never be our friend and less so right now - she was humiliated and her bitterness will be deep.

I actually wrote that post 'tongue in cheek', I would have thought it obvious - but no, the written word is taken at face value - a lesson for me.

BC wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:08am:
Now that we have actually got the Minister to the table, its not smart to piss the arbitrator off.


Neville Chamberlain approached Hitler with exactly that mindset - and history tells us how that went.


  
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #35 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:52am
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SF90 wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:29am:
I agree largely with what you say, the only way is forward - but do not forget the Minister we are talking about tried to shaft us in a very big way.

Forgive, if you choose, hold out the olive branch should you choose, but do not forget - nor should you roll over in appeasement for you might well find she will kick you in the guts.

She is a representative of the people, yet has shown a bias toward her own personal agenda and her failure in achieving that must rankle.
She will never be our friend and less so right now - she was humiliated and her bitterness will be deep.

I actually wrote that post 'tongue in cheek', I would have thought it obvious - but no, the written word is taken at face value - a lesson for me.

BC wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:08am:
Now that we have actually got the Minister to the table, its not smart to piss the arbitrator off.


Neville Chamberlain approached Hitler with exactly that mindset - and history tells us how that went.




I dont think she was humiliated.

she got her cull, just less than wanted. She has ensured that numbers will be reduced next year too, and probably into the future as systems fall into place around more accurate counts.

Thats a win..

We also win.. the future of Tahr appears to be looking brighter with some guaranteed minimum numbers being set in place and the groups representing hunters and other interested parties having a far greater say.

Most importantly it has been demonstrated we have teeth.. Our opinion matters.

Thats is also a win.

Everyone made compromises.. The Minister got less Tahr culled, the hunters now acknowledge defacto that AATH and WARO are here to stay and tools to control numbers. AATH now have to perform the nanny culls they promised in regard to number of bulls shot. Hunters got less Tahr.
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #36 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 9:39am
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Personally I think anyone who thinks this is over is naive.  Smiley She is like a wounded lion and will charge out of the bushes just as you let your guard down. Her office is staffed with Forest and birders and she herself worked for F&B and her husband works for DOC.
She knew she was in trouble on this one when the 150k was raised ...she knew then that an injunction would be on her table by weds... so all that has happened here is that she has had a skirmish with hunters and tested the water.  In my opinion her goal is total extermination of introduced species and after this scrap she will just change tactics.
The 1080 will be targeted more at deer ..the amount in a pellet will go up and she doesn't need any consultation or approval.  waro will increase and the hunting groups who said yes minister ..thank you minister... will rue the day they didn't serve it to her while the country was united against her.
Just my opinion but I'm usually right... Grin Grin Grin Grin tongue in cheek...read my press releases when she was fist appointed and later...
It ain't over yet. Smiley
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #37 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 9:41am
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headcase wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:52am:
Most importantly it has been demonstrated we have teeth.. Our opinion matters.

Yes I totally agree how ever politician have demonstrated many times they are masters of deceit. Watch her very closely and stay behind the two parties fighting for our interests. I for one are more than willing to chip in again to "give a little". Money talks bullshit walks. Any of the tahr group read this , just ask, people are here to help $  Cool  ps Like the Chamberlain quote very appropriate Wink
  
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #38 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:42am
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SF90 wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:29am:
I agree largely with what you say, the only way is forward - but do not forget the Minister we are talking about tried to shaft us in a very big way.

Forgive, if you choose, hold out the olive branch should you choose, but do not forget - nor should you roll over in appeasement for you might well find she will kick you in the guts.

She is a representative of the people, yet has shown a bias toward her own personal agenda and her failure in achieving that must rankle.
She will never be our friend and less so right now - she was humiliated and her bitterness will be deep.

I actually wrote that post 'tongue in cheek', I would have thought it obvious - but no, the written word is taken at face value - a lesson for me.

BC wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:08am:
Now that we have actually got the Minister to the table, its not smart to piss the arbitrator off.


Neville Chamberlain approached Hitler with exactly that mindset - and history tells us how that went.




That's rubbish. Chamberlain was weak, and lauded a weak deal. We are lauding the beginning of negotiations and are not weak. We have a war chest which can be increased.

Albeit that the out come could be (to paraphrase Chamberlain) "Tahr in our time".

The point I was wishing to make is that there will be no profit in aggravating the Minister through silly behaviour.
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #39 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:51am
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Alan wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 9:39am:
Personally I think anyone who thinks this is over is naive.  Smiley She is like a wounded lion and will charge out of the bushes just as you let your guard down. Her office is staffed with Forest and birders and she herself worked for F&B and her husband works for DOC.
She knew she was in trouble on this one when the 150k was raised ...she knew then that an injunction would be on her table by weds... so all that has happened here is that she has had a skirmish with hunters and tested the water.  In my opinion her goal is total extermination of introduced species and after this scrap she will just change tactics.
The 1080 will be targeted more at deer ..the amount in a pellet will go up and she doesn't need any consultation or approval.  waro will increase and the hunting groups who said yes minister ..thank you minister... will rue the day they didn't serve it to her while the country was united against her.
Just my opinion but I'm usually right... Grin Grin Grin Grin tongue in cheek...read my press releases when she was fist appointed and later...
It ain't over yet. Smiley
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Who exactly? And why exactly?

Just want to ask again Alan, who were these yes Minister "hunting groups" your refer to, and why will they "rue the day?"

On the face of it appears that you are dissing very well intended and effective groups for political gain?

« Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2018 at 7:00am by BC »  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #40 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:53am
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Obviously I will not tell you where I get my information from BUT all they talk about is getting rid of the deer out of NZ...the language and hatred is frightening behind the scenes.. and they think they are right and we are rabble. So we will see... time will tell but they are not giving up. Smiley
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #41 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 3:11pm
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+1 Allan, we need to keep the pressure on.
  
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #42 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:24pm
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BC wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 11:42am:
That's rubbish. Chamberlain was weak, and lauded a weak deal. We are lauding the beginning of negotiations and are not weak. We have a war chest which can be increased.


'War chest' - that's a bit bloody rich mate.
There were a group of guys who got off their arse and made something happen - with sod all help from the majority of us, I might add.
Last I looked at that 'war chest' it was about $158,000 - which works out to about 1,600 donations of $100 each - or 3,200 people donating $50.
And 'Shanks' reckons there are about 2 to 3,000 dedicated thar hunters, not counting the casuals.

And Chamberlain was weak, but no weaker than us as a group.
What have we ever decided on here, what have we made happen as a forum group - nothing.
We 'shoot the breeze', show off our flash guns, 4WD's and post photos of what we shot - no demands, just chat and the occasional bitch session.

We are a threat to no-one.

And having said all that - I enjoy reading the stories, seeing the photos and not least - seeing the different ways people think.

It's a good forum - and I wish I didn't feel compelled to say that, but it's true.

And Alan is right - dump on him all you like, he sees it how I do and while he might feel a bit sad that you can't see what's right in front of your face - I doubt he gives too much of a toss.

And now I'm going to search the 'archives' to see if I can find anything positive you might have written - apart from your dog one - that was good  Smiley


  
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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #43 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Thanks SF90 BUT I do give a toss... I want to secure good hunting for my grandson before I pop my clogs... and I don't have much time now... so am frustrated when I see what is secretly happening and that hunters JUST like anglers only rise to the challenge when their sport is threatened.. Actually Chamberlain said another great statement when asked what the secret of winning in politics was and he said "events" and that pretty much it... so long as those events don't happen in a run up to an election the government have a free ride. Come next election I wonder how many will remember NZ First... trawlers out to 12 miles and Nationals recreational fishing reserves... and they will have moved on from Thar... I believe we need  a total culture shock at DOC and it needs to be about US and NOW not preservationists and we need to get some field experience back into the department AND it all starts at the top...
Anyway I still stand by what I said I have inside knowledge and deer are right in the firing line... Grin Grin Grin
  

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Re: Engine sage.!
Reply #44 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:15pm
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+ 1 Alan. Next year they will implement heaps then all go quite 2020.
Keep up the good work.
  
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