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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Tahr eradication proposed by the minister (Read 22165 times)
SF90
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #225 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:59am
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Oscar wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:29am:
SF90 wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:26am:
For a long time I thought the NZDA was it, and wasn't always satisfied they were doing all they could - but I am able to appreciate they are somewhat 'stretched' and need to tread lightly.


Im guessing from that, that you are a member of NZDA? I think all should join, its the best option we have. And better membership and resources will lead to better outcomes (not the other way round, necessarily)


Yes I am - including my three kids.

  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #226 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 11:43am
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I'm not slagging GAC at all, my question was serious.

I've donated to LNIRDF and the Thar Foundation when they were seeking funds for court action.
Both those groups are doing their best to preserve a particular sector of our hunting - but what about the rest.

GAC was created by the then Minister to cover all aspects for the greater good of hunters, but the difficulty we are now seeing - is the current Minister can equally disband it - almost at whim, it seems.

That seems to me to be a remarkably fragile position in that you daren't piss off your 'employer' as such.

If GAC were able to remove themselves from such a tenuous position and place themselves as a 'stand alone' group answerable to ......... certainly not Ms Sage, then they would obviously be in a much stronger position.

It seems to me, that effort should be put into trying to achieve this - to remove GAC's current vulnerabilities.

I don't know what percentage of hunters belong to various organisations such as the NZDA, nor what percentage belong to, or support anyone at all - the majority I expect.

If GAC were able to achieve autonomy, then they would certainly be the force I would throw my full support behind.


wasn't meaning you, SF90  Smiley

As Oscar said, theres plenty of it on this forum, over the years.

Specific interest  like Sika - wapiti - tahr foundations, LNIRDF, etc have a role.
NZDA don't represent all hunters, whereas these groups can get non NZDA members as well.
Buut is hard to see NZDA replacing the likes of the wapiti foundation. so there'll always be the other goups.. especially if herds of Special Interest get underway

No sure Alan is being too fair about GAC communications. Until they get a funding source, cant see them doing much more than they are. I do no they do a lot that we don't see. (and maybe cant be told). they are a government organization, so you wont see the internal stuff being published.

Having a stronger NZDA is a must, if hunters are going to influence the politicians. Its interesting that with the Tahr, suddenly hunters were very vocal. If there had been more support for NZDA and perhaps the GAC, maybe the minister deer cull plans wouldn't have happened.?

IMO, hunters whose reaction to stuff like this is abuse on social media etc, vandalism of DOC property etc need to pull their heads in. Theyrve done nothing but harm to hunting and have contributed a lot to hunters not being taken seriously

The Tahr issue is a Game management one, and if hunters don't want more of it, they should support a system that enables real management of game. Right now, the vehicle to that is through the efforts of the GAC and supporting the hunting body recognized by government - the NZDA

If that's going to mean more rules, cost money, so be it

Hunters need to pull their heads out
The old "hunting's never been better" is going to change. possibly pretty quickly if Sage gets her way



  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #227 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:40pm
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 11:43am:
wasn't meaning you, SF90  Smiley

As Oscar said, theres plenty of it on this forum, over the years.

Specific interest  like Sika - wapiti - tahr foundations, LNIRDF, etc have a role.
NZDA don't represent all hunters, whereas these groups can get non NZDA members as well.
Buut is hard to see NZDA replacing the likes of the wapiti foundation. so there'll always be the other goups.. especially if herds of Special Interest get underway

No sure Alan is being too fair about GAC communications. Until they get a funding source, cant see them doing much more than they are. I do no they do a lot that we don't see. (and maybe cant be told). they are a government organization, so you wont see the internal stuff being published.

Having a stronger NZDA is a must, if hunters are going to influence the politicians. Its interesting that with the Tahr, suddenly hunters were very vocal. If there had been more support for NZDA and perhaps the GAC, maybe the minister deer cull plans wouldn't have happened.?

IMO, hunters whose reaction to stuff like this is abuse on social media etc, vandalism of DOC property etc need to pull their heads in. Theyrve done nothing but harm to hunting and have contributed a lot to hunters not being taken seriously

The Tahr issue is a Game management one, and if hunters don't want more of it, they should support a system that enables real management of game. Right now, the vehicle to that is through the efforts of the GAC and supporting the hunting body recognized by government - the NZDA

If that's going to mean more rules, cost money, so be it

Hunters need to pull their heads out
The old "hunting's never been better" is going to change. possibly pretty quickly if Sage gets her way


I agree with all that, and I think Ms Sage could possibly have done us a favour by showing us our frailties.

The thing now is to get hunters to wake up to that and take some steps to protect our future interests - and doing nothing is no answer at all.

You'll need a wiser head than mine to point the direction on that one - I simply don't know enough about who is who, but I do know there is urgency needed and numbers required to back up whoever we end up supporting - and that could be the hard bit.




  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #228 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 1:02pm
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Oscar wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 9:39am:
Look on the Forum, which we are told 'they' do. Lots of posts stating that GAC are something like a waste of time because they haven't achieved anything. Your post sort-of implies the same. But ask NZDA/Tahr Foundation/LNIRDF what they think and from what I see they all strongly support GAC.


Until moderately recently I had no real idea who GAC were and had little thought about what they did.
I've heard the criticism and the support, but there are so many groups out there known only by their shortened forms (initials) - GAC, LNIRDF, OSPRI it's very easy to not dig into who they might be - or who they represent.
It all becomes a bit mind numbing.

As for GAC's performance, I can only go on what others have said - and really have no opinion.

Except - the NZDA, Thar Foundation and others groups I respect give them credit - so that tells me something.



  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #229 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:08pm
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The way I see it, there are 3 'layers' and they are complimentary:

At the highest level, there is the GAC - they are a statutory body, responsible for hunting overall and across a lot of different groups. Advise politicians. MUST be apolitical.

Next level - NZDA (and similar voluntary membership associations). Lobby groups - free from links to any specific Party, they can bring political pressure to bear due to their membership numbers and resources (or will be able to, hopefully, one day). They support the GAC as needed and also the other layer:

3rd level: Foundations like Tahr, Wapiti, Sika, LNI Red Deer. Focussed on 'doing'. Know their specific issue/area intimately. Bring together multiple local groups. A better approach to have local 'management' than top down. Specialised and so more effective. GAC helps them with the policy framework/legislation they need. NZDA et al can help with resources. But decision making is by those closest to the on the ground, day to day stuff.

These 3 have linked but separate roles. They work closely together, but are more effective as no one group tries to do everything.
  

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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #230 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:13pm
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As an outsider but someone who has had the pleasure of hunting in New Zealand quite a few times (mostly in the bad old days), I was very disappointed to see on this forum a couple of years ago the negative comments from many hunters about a proposed hunter licensing system to fund the GAC.

The GAC will always be hamstrung and vulnerable if it hasn't got significant funding and local hunters are the potential winners from an active and influential GAC.

In my opinion hunters do need to come to the party on supporting the GAC financially and also the likes of the NZDA.

Cheers
  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #231 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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headcase wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:37am:
Strength in numbers. Make the effort if you aren't already a member.


I was one once, around 1970 odd I think
  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #232 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:57pm
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TJ wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
headcase wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 10:37am:
Strength in numbers. Make the effort if you aren't already a member.


I was one once, around 1970 odd I think


I dont think they would take you now. Something to do with the insurance policy they offer all members and being over 90.  Grin
  

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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #233 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:59pm
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arse hole  Grin Grin Shocked
  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #234 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Oscar wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:08pm:
The way I see it, there are 3 'layers' and they are complimentary:

At the highest level, there is the GAC - they are a statutory body, responsible for hunting overall and across a lot of different groups. Advise politicians. MUST be apolitical.

Next level - NZDA (and similar voluntary membership associations). Lobby groups - free from links to any specific Party, they can bring political pressure to bear due to their membership numbers and resources (or will be able to, hopefully, one day). They support the GAC as needed and also the other layer:

3rd level: Foundations like Tahr, Wapiti, Sika, LNI Red Deer. Focussed on 'doing'. Know their specific issue/area intimately. Bring together multiple local groups. A better approach to have local 'management' than top down. Specialised and so more effective. GAC helps them with the policy framework/legislation they need. NZDA et al can help with resources. But decision making is by those closest to the on the ground, day to day stuff.

These 3 have linked but separate roles. They work closely together, but are more effective as no one group tries to do everything.
                   



Thank you for that - very well explained.


Dogwood wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:13pm:
As an outsider but someone who has had the pleasure of hunting in New Zealand quite a few times (mostly in the bad old days), I was very disappointed to see on this forum a couple of years ago the negative comments from many hunters about a proposed hunter licensing system to fund the GAC.

The GAC will always be hamstrung and vulnerable if it hasn't got significant funding and local hunters are the potential winners from an active and influential GAC.

In my opinion hunters do need to come to the party on supporting the GAC financially and also the likes of the NZDA.

Cheers
                   


That's the thing with an 'outsider' - you can look in with a clear perspective (?) and see where we are at.
The difficulty with being on the 'inside' ...... it is all we know.

I've known for a good part of my life that we have been remarkably fortunate regards our hunting - especially when compared to many overseas rules/regulations.

I missed the comments re 'a proposed hunter licensing system' to fund GAC - saw the thread, but didn't read and might perhaps have been somewhat negative myself - being blissfully ignorant to what Oscar has just told me.

In respect of that and the real threat (IMO) that hangs over our current hunting ..... freedom, I can see such a system being beneficial and even a necessity.

Quite a lot to wrap your head around - but certainly a way to move forward ............ IMO.



  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #235 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:58pm
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i've been saying it for a while now ,every firearm licence holder should be paying into a hunting fund to support hunting, either to game council or some sort of body, its long over due just look at the money that they rake in in nsw and victoria , wish i had saved the article i read of the exact amount it was staggering
  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #236 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 6:52pm
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Greetings all.
I've only just caught up with this thread.
Very interesting and thanks to the Tahr Foundation , GAC , NZDA & others who have successfully caused the minister to rethink.
I read the Conservation Authority advice to the minister & it seems they do protest to much. Talk of the Tahr plan annual report implies they have had reports every year.
Therefore to suddenly be outraged by Tahr numbers suggests theatrics & agendas .
Similarly to drag in f&b opinion in support of their demands.
Pennyless
  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #237 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 7:13am
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pope wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
i've been saying it for a while now ,every firearm licence holder should be paying into a hunting fund to support hunting, either to game council or some sort of body, its long over due just look at the money that they rake in in nsw and victoria , wish i had saved the article i read of the exact amount it was staggering


I know plenty of licence holders that have never hunted and no intention of it. why force them to pay for hunters problems?

  
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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #238 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 7:50am
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Gonehuntin:  Who said anything about force?
The only force being applied is from Sage and governments.
Hunters, mistakenly think they can rely on Sage's version of democracy.
  

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Re: Tahr eradication proposed by the minister
Reply #239 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:01am
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I was replying to the suggest every licence holder should pay into a hunting fund.

that would be a gun lobby fund like nra. owning a firearm dose not mean youre a hunter.   it should be anyone who gets a hunting permit pays into a hunting fund to support gac and the likes but that would require a degree of privatisation of hunting permits, that would be the start of a slippery slope with nz hunting as would most lilely be dictated by guides and trophy hunters. would rather the gamble with the current system and politics.

many would disagree but id rather have no hunting opportunity then have hunting totaly controled by a private organisation. sometimes youre better off with then devil you know (doc) then the devil you dont know
  
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