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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras (Read 6457 times)
Tararua Hunter
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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #120 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:54pm
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MeatHunta wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Yep, that's it in a nutshell Marty.

There would still be an additional cost of applying deer repellent to the bait in Whanganui, whether automated or manual. If it were automated it could conceivably be cheaper.

Two businesses are investing as you suggest at the moment.

OSPRI postponed this year's Molesworth operation in the hope that one of the new, hopefully cheaper, repellents will be available next year, better mitigating deer by-kill.



Meathunter, As I understand it, the Whanganui poison factory cant incorporate the repellent into the bait mix as its produced. I have no idea why.
If the repellent has to be surface coated, then that's a different process to 1080 bait manufacture.

It has to be by using hand application, which is ridiculously labour intensive. Open bag, spreading bait, sprayon, dry, rebag.

There used to be a converted carrot cutter  machine, that sprayed on 1080/lure onto the surface of pellet baits. (mapua variety) it would handle deer repellent, but I'm not sure the Whanganui baits are hard enough to withstand the process.

Hopefully repellent will be incorporated during baitproduction sometime soon
  
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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #121 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:54pm:
MeatHunta wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Yep, that's it in a nutshell Marty.

There would still be an additional cost of applying deer repellent to the bait in Whanganui, whether automated or manual. If it were automated it could conceivably be cheaper.

Two businesses are investing as you suggest at the moment.

OSPRI postponed this year's Molesworth operation in the hope that one of the new, hopefully cheaper, repellents will be available next year, better mitigating deer by-kill.



Meathunter, As I understand it, the Whanganui poison factory cant incorporate the repellent into the bait mix as its produced. I have no idea why.
If the repellent has to be surface coated, then that's a different process to 1080 bait manufacture.

It has to be by using hand application, which is ridiculously labour intensive. Open bag, spreading bait, sprayon, dry, rebag.


There used to be a converted carrot cutter† machine, that sprayed on 1080/lure onto the surface of pellet baits. (mapua variety) it would handle deer repellent, but I'm not sure the Whanganui baits are hard enough to withstand the process.

Hopefully repellent will be incorporated during baitproduction sometime soon


That's my understanding
  
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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #122 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:18pm
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I understand EDR can technically be incorporated at manufacture but when tested that removed almost all the benefit (ie it didn't deter deer). Hence the surface coating process has to be in place.
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #123 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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Marty Foote wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Oscar wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:35am:
Grin Iíve said on here before who I am and what I do, your interesting theories donít worry me. deleted Marty. You may not be able to understand but it is possible for people to disagree in good faith.

I am a little flattered. My apologies that Iíve never bothered to find out who you are.


So, according to you, although Beef & Lamb is a major shareholder of OSPRI and is responsible for OSPRI's activities, Beef & Lamb is not interested in any negative public comments made about a company that Beef & Lamb is heavily involved with?

You might be interested to learn that I have received a copy of an email, written by a MPI manager, that states that MPI is concerned about my activities and is monitoring this forum as one of the ways to monitor my activities, the email goes on to state that MPI management has blocked any correspondence that I send to the Minister of Primary Industries.

You expect my to believe that Beef & Lamb is not interested in this debate and yet MPI, who is the major funder of OSPRI, is interested to the extent they are prepared to monitor what I say, filter information sent to the elected NZ Government representatives and block any information from reaching the Minister if it doesn't agree with advice MPI managers are giving to the Minister??? Sorry....The other leg has bells on it, and if you pull it hard enough they will tinkle out a pleasant tune.


Everyone on here deserves the common courtesy of enjoying a separation of their private lives from their professional lives (past and present) unless they declare that they are actually representing a particular organisation.

Marty you have made all sorts of personal comments and innuendo about me in the past, and that is the reason that I seldom now contribute to threads that you are participating in.

« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:19pm by headcase »  

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.......
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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #124 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:27pm
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Interesting thread and good ti hear Marty the chap with big balls   Smiley
Although there seems ti be the odd dude about who likes ti run with the hare and hunt with the hound  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #125 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 6:45am
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Marty Foote wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Oscar wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:35am:
Grin Iíve said on here before who I am and what I do, your interesting theories donít worry me. deleted You may not be able to understand but it is possible for people to disagree in good faith.

I am a little flattered. My apologies that Iíve never bothered to find out who you are.


So, according to you, although Beef & Lamb is a major shareholder of OSPRI and is responsible for OSPRI's activities, Beef & Lamb is not interested in any negative public comments made about a company that Beef & Lamb is heavily involved with?

You might be interested to learn that I have received a copy of an email, written by a MPI manager, that states that MPI is concerned about my activities and is monitoring this forum as one of the ways to monitor my activities, the email goes on to state that MPI management has blocked any correspondence that I send to the Minister of Primary Industries.

You expect my to believe that Beef & Lamb is not interested in this debate and yet MPI, who is the major funder of OSPRI, is interested to the extent they are prepared to monitor what I say, filter information sent to the elected NZ Government representatives and block any information from reaching the Minister if it doesn't agree with advice MPI managers are giving to the Minister??? Sorry....The other leg has bells on it, and if you pull it hard enough they will tinkle out a pleasant tune.


If your supposed informants were half as good as you seem to think, youíd know youíre asking the wrong person. Have a look at some of the criticism posted. Perhaps you really believe the innuendo is working for you, but as the saying goes: those that mind donít matter and those that matter wonít mind.
« Last Edit: Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:20pm by headcase »  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #126 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 9:36am
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It should be noted that despite our advanced technological age and the fact that 1080 has been applied in various forms in NZ for over 50 years, that there has been so little real progress in developing additives that are fully effective in protecting non target species.  This type of delay justifies the lack of trust most have in the 1080 promoters and users and applicators, thus , in the product itself and the reasons for it's use.
When 1080 began to be aerially applied NZ had assurances it would not be applied into waterways. Progressively, the definition of a "waterway" was modified by the users, and today the regulators have again changed the assurance such that application directly into waterways is a permitted activity to within 200m of a water intake. This offers no protection whatever to trampers of hunters using waterways.
While the ERMA and latterly the EPA had approved the use of Glysophate (roundup) on land and over water, we now hear of the $400m lawsuit in USA declaring Monsanto as liable for the health effects of it on a man, with many other lawsuits pending. The NZ media is screaming and many retailers are removing it from their shelves. The assurances given by the vested interest Monsanto to the US EPA that glysophate was safe have parallels to the ERMA, PCE and EPA assurances here for glysophate, 1080, and other chemicals. The phrase "we consider the benifits ourweigh the risks" has worn very thin.
Again, the delays in developing an effective repellant are inexcusably long and the justifications for actual use of 1080 while suppressing alternative options are equally thin. I still feel the best action is to push hard to have 1080 banned for the most part and divert the funds usage into other means of wild animal management. Too much energy and time is being expended publicly, privately and socially "spinning the wheel" on this failure of environmental interference which resources should and could be more usefully applied to more benign means. The struggle to succeed but ultimately achievable moves towards organic agriculture and horticulture are a good example to follow.
(BC). Promoting EDR on the basis of reducing the incidence of cruelty to deer is a totally spurious argument, especially in the light of the reality that all other animals including the target animals are suffering the deliberate cruelty inflicted by 1080 poison (and brodifacoum too ). EDR is not going to change that fact, nor reduce the extreme cruelty to the majority of animals and birds that ingest it.
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #127 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:18pm
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Well balance well written post.  Smiley 

  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #128 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 8:10pm
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Thanks Headcase. It's about time people realised they are becoming merely spokes in that spinning wheel; and it is designed to lead nowhere fast.
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #129 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 9:18pm
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headcase wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 7:18pm:
Well balance well written post.† Smiley



Yes..that's fi sure† Smiley
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #130 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 9:11pm
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A Jury making the judgement on a carcinogen is about as reliable as social media assessing deer repellent Smiley The Glyphosate issue is an interesting one. IARC are the only agency to consider it a carcinogen, and their rating was 2A - that's the same as the classification IARC gave red meat. So if glyphosate should be banned, we should all become vegetarian too. The figurative jury is still out, even if the literal one wasn't.
  

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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #131 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 9:40pm
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Oscar wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
A Jury making the judgement on a carcinogen is about as reliable as social media assessing deer repellent Smiley The Glyphosate issue is an interesting one. IARC are the only agency to consider it a carcinogen, and their rating was 2A - that's the same as the classification IARC gave red meat. So if glyphosate should be banned, we should all become vegetarian too. The figurative jury is still out, even if the literal one wasn't.


My understanding is that glyphosate is implicated in far more health problems that just cancer. Bearing in mind, that there are heaps of varieties of cancer, some of which we don't even know what the causes are.

Would you, by any chance, be a supporter of the use of both glyphosate and 1080?

The glyhosate argument, you have put up, is the Monsanto argument and similar, benign sounding, arguments have been put up by the 1080 industry in reply to the sort of arguments that look like Monsanto is going to be a few hundred million dollars short in their next profit reporting to their shareholders.
  
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Re: 1080 - Monitoring a sika deer population with trail cameras
Reply #132 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 9:45pm
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LOL. I just like reading  Smiley
  

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