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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) ALERT (Read 3979 times)
huntnfish
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Re: ALERT
Reply #15 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 12:02pm
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gonehuntin wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 10:20am:
Once again huntfish it wasnt doc that done this!!  While I wont argue with your other statements as we all have our own opinions, I also dont think highly of doc but the fact is this was a deliberate act Decided on and carried out by a contractor. doc didnt tell the guy to go dump the crap in a swamp.

going by your logic if you called in a pest controller (contractor) to spray your house etc and you wernt there to watch and he got caught pouring toxic chemicals down the drain or burried in your garden then you would be held liable for their actions???
Or do these rules only apply to govt departments and people you have a grudge against?

imo its really not as big of a deal as being made out to be. that contractor had most likely just spread a couple ton of the stuff over a large area,  mayby be thankfull that 75kg wont kill your 2800 deer.


Your logic is seriously flawed boyo. Because in this case, it is NOT Your house, nor is it DoC's house. It is OUR house and DoC (unfortunately) is responsible for it. If DoC employs irresponsible workers or contractors, it is on DoC.
  

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Marty Foote
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Re: ALERT
Reply #16 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 1:32pm
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gonehuntin wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 9:28am:
the chap that blew the whistle should be held liable aswell,  he knew damn well what they were doing was wrong but continued on anyway, just because someone asks you to break the law dosent mean you have to.


This is one of the really big problems with DOC, OSPRI and Regional Council employees/contractors who know what is happening is wrong. If they blow the whistle they know they will be sacked and may be liable for prosecution.

All the wild animal control contracts have a confidentiality clause that has been used to threaten contractors, and their employees, with prosecution, for breach of contract, if they speak publicly about any negative aspects of their work that doesn't agree with the public statements being made by the organisations responsible for the work.

The guy that blew the whistle should be applauded and given a medal. He knew that he had to leave his employment and will probably be hassled by his old boss and the management chain that was responsible for overseeing the contract, and yet, he still did what he thought was the right thing to do.
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #17 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm
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A little off topic but this article gives a bloody good insight to how DOC operates.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/07/12/151517?slug=docs-culture-wars-revealed&pre...
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #18 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 4:28pm
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Marty Foote wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 8:44am:
gonehuntin wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:01pm:
I dont think you understand how contracting works.† the work was undertaken by a private contractor and his employees.

doc have been wronged in this instance, I think your stance on 1080 is clouding your brains ability to understand the situation.



The ultimate responsibility rests with DOC.

DOC cannot contract out responsibility to a private contractor.

If someone was responsible for something and was convicted in Court, the fact that a contractor did the deed would be taken into account at the time of sentencing. The entity responsible would still be convicted.


Marty.... there is no guarantee the entity responsible would be convicted at all, how could you know this?

I'm picking given your comments maybe you have some sort of legal background, so please elaborate on what they would be convicted of, especially if say for example they could prove they had robust procedures in place to prevent this and the contractor deliberately circumvented them?

Has it occured to all the idiots on here bagging DoC that maybe they are even more outraged about this than anyone? Oh and before all the keyboard warriors with the strong opinions and usually zero facts get started (and almost always without any alternative solutions), no i dont work for DoC or have any affiliation.

Gonehuntin... dont often agree with you, but def do in this instance.


  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #19 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Cuzza wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 4:28pm:
Marty Foote wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 8:44am:
gonehuntin wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:01pm:
I dont think you understand how contracting works.† the work was undertaken by a private contractor and his employees.

doc have been wronged in this instance, I think your stance on 1080 is clouding your brains ability to understand the situation.



The ultimate responsibility rests with DOC.

DOC cannot contract out responsibility to a private contractor.

If someone was responsible for something and was convicted in Court, the fact that a contractor did the deed would be taken into account at the time of sentencing. The entity responsible would still be convicted.


Marty.... there is no guarantee the entity responsible would be convicted at all, how could you know this?

I'm picking given your comments maybe you have some sort of legal background, so please elaborate on what they would be convicted of, especially if say for example they could prove they had robust procedures in place to prevent this and the contractor deliberately circumvented them?

Has it occured to all the idiots on here bagging DoC that maybe they are even more outraged about this than anyone? Oh and before all the keyboard warriors with the strong opinions and usually zero facts get started (and almost always without any alternative solutions), no i dont work for DoC or have any affiliation.

Gonehuntin... dont often agree with you, but def do in this instance.


DOC is not going to be prosecuted for their behaviour as none of the central and local government entities responsible for prosecution will ever bring charges.

All that will happen will be an internal investigation, that will never be published, that will implicate one or two individuals, who will be sacked, and DOC will carry on as before.

This is not the first time the aerial 1080 industry has been caught illegally disposing of excess 1080. There has never been a prosecution to date, just some internal naval gazing that looks at how they can do things better so that they don't get caught again.
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #20 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 5:17pm
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S115 (2) might save DOC from prosecution under the HSNO Act.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1996/0030/latest/DLM384923.html

  

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Re: ALERT
Reply #21 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 6:00pm
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Quote:
(2) Where any offence is committed against this Act by a person acting as the agent of another person, that offence shall, for the purposes of this Act, be treated as committed by the principal unless it is done without the principalís express or implied authority.



seems the experts should actually check the law first.

If DOC had faulty quality assurance systems, then they could/should be held accountable. But that isn't known yet.
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #22 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 7:20pm
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I'm glad something like this has been found out and in the media.
Ever since Pest Control became business where contractors put in cheap prices to out do each other they have cut corners and done dodgey stuff to survive...I like many prob on this forum have worked in pest control and was put off the industry due to poor practices and a game of cat and mouse when it came to Ospri TBfree operations...
This is what happens when things get contracted out...contractors red line jobs to win them and then cut massive corners to turn a profit...none of this surprised me one bit...but news flash people this contractor is not alone...he just got caught! Angry
The stuff people know is mind boggling in the industry....from throwing stuff of bluffs to hot balling feratox by taking it out of their biodegradable bags and adding more feratox to each peanut ball...it all happens and is all focused on reducing time on foot per person...the real cost is people and time covering ground so the first thing contractors will do is any method possible to minimise going over territory more that once...
Time for industry change...That means no more contractors...budget = shortcuts
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #23 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 7:54pm
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On the money from my insider mates views.

hawken 50 wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
A little off topic but this article gives a bloody good insight to how DOC operates.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/07/12/151517?slug=docs-culture-wars-revealed&pre...


Appears this now made it to front page headlines in the news!!!
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #24 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 8:31pm
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Why do they aerial drop 1080 in the Hurunui Sth Branch and not use bait bags, donít they care about the Kiwis up there
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #25 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 10:28pm
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Re: ALERT
Reply #26 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 7:03am
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This is a pretty bad case of a contractor not carrying out their job.  It's going to make it a little more difficult for DOC.  Public trust has has been damaged badly but essentially little in the current 1080 program will change.

Toxin use is a contentious issue the processes around its use are strict and so should be the scrutiny on the contractors used.  We deserve that at least.

The company directors/management/staff will be prosecuted for this as they should deservedly be.  For a failure in processes managing the product, but not the actual product.

   
  

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Re: ALERT
Reply #27 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 9:39am
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Its a pretty contentious issue down here on the Island.
Theres helicopters going back and fourth dropping people off, both DOC and media.
Obviously the contracter will go for a skate and DOC will have to tighten up on its procedures going forward.

Speaking with 'Isack' a few weeks back about rumors of bags of poison being dumped and also of few dead deer found with-in the operation zone, he told me this.
''That he had just quit his job due to his boss not paying him for work done.
He denied knowledge of any 1080 found, but admitted it was just pre-feed cerial bait dumped.
Also he found one dead deer that in his opinion had died way before they got into the area,''

Makes me wonder that if 'Isack' had been payed weather he would have come forward with the information on the 1080 dump.

By the way the contract reached its target requirements in terms of possums RTC's.
  

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Re: ALERT
Reply #28 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 11:23am
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He denied knowledge of any 1080 found, but admitted it was just pre-feed cerial bait dumped

was it preffed or toxic?

prefeed isn't a breach of regulations,
  
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Re: ALERT
Reply #29 - Jul 14th, 2018 at 11:59am
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Jul 14th, 2018 at 11:23am:
Quote:
He denied knowledge of any 1080 found, but admitted it was just pre-feed cerial bait dumped

was it preffed or toxic?

prefeed isn't a breach of regulations,


prefeed usually not dyed or has that changed now?  the dump site was all green mush so presumably toxic?
  
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