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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Orange Fronted Kakariki (Read 60498 times)
Marty Foote
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #90 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:25am
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So where does the fault lie then? By your own admission, output contract trappers can do the job in remote areas as you have successfully employed them. So, why did they stop being employed and why does DOC deny that output contractors have been successful in the past? Remember, one of DOC's commonly used statements is "trappers can't do the job in remote areas".

I'm really interested to see the spin you put on Sage's attack on GAC, after all, you have been a great supporter of the way DOC have been treating GAC while others have predicted this attack was always going to happen.

Remember GAC was Peter Dunne's baby when he got elected, with one of his election promises being about too much 1080 being used and the need to use alternatives. GAC goes on and does the job Dunne set GAC up to do, as Associate Minister of Conservation, and Sage attacks GAC for doing it's job as instructed by the Minister of Conservation.

Have a look at my previous post about how DOC uses a pattern against people who dare to question DOC. Sage has not only questioned GAC, as a whole, she has also launched personal attacks against individuals, of the GAC, in a bid to discredit their integrity.


Marty, your still at it
I said contract trappers CAN be successful. The "remote " areas were the eastern valleys of the Tararuas, in part up to the bushline and thu the alpine scrub. Contractors were not interested in tendering for the more ruggered stuff further into the range.
Every area is different as you know. Its nonsense to say ground control will always be more cost effective than aerial (or whatever yourve been saying)

As for the GAC
WTF are you on about. I've supported Peter Dunne and the GAC as much as anyone. what fkg planet are you on.
read my comments about Minister sage.

And stop deliberately misinterpreting everything that's said


I have never said that trappers will be "always" be more cost effective.

What I have said is, if the areas were put up for competitive tender, the tender proposals would decide what areas trappers would be the most cost effective in. You have agreed with me that some areas, currently being done with aerial 1080, could be cost effectively done using trappers.

It doesn't matter how much spin you put on it or how hard you try to twist what I have said, the simple fact is we are in agreement, that trappers can do the job and competitive tendering would quickly help to work out what areas are the most cost effective for trappers to do.

We are not the only ones that have come to the same conclusion, as the DOC Conservancies and even DOC Head Office also agree with us, with the problem being able to implement the DOC SOP planning procedures and getting the Minister of Conservation to withdraw her refusal to allow the Conservancies to follow the SOP planning procedures, that have already been written, approved and signed off on.

The Minister is right when she says that the procedures allow for trappers to be employed, what the Minister doesn't say, is that she refuses to allow DOC to issue competitive tenders, or ask for expressions of interest, that will allow the SOP procedures to work as was intended when they were written.

You will note that the same problems that Conservancies have run into, with regard to competitive tendering, are the same problems that GAC has also run into. The Minister is issuing decrees that stop the SOP procedures being followed and the decrees are also running contrary to the legislation that has already been enacted, just as her latest decrees, about the way GAC is operating, also run counter to GAC original instructions and the legislation that was written specifically for GAC to work under.
  
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Tararua Hunter
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #91 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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This is just a pissing contest marty.

I'm out of it
  
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EC
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #92 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 3:48am
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Seems Marty at this stage has out pissed everyone.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #93 - Aug 27th, 2018 at 8:46am
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EC wrote on Aug 27th, 2018 at 3:48am:
Seems Marty at this stage has out pissed everyone.


Grin Grin
  
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #94 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 6:28am
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Yeh. Laff while you can. Marty has on balance helped to adjust the the scales pre-loaded for the poison and anti trapping stooges and expose some sorely needed truths.
A pretty stressful effort for the man; so ease off the yuppyness till he can answer you. Hope he relaxes on his "month off" and comes back all square.
  

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Oscar
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #95 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 7:23pm
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huntnfish wrote on Aug 30th, 2018 at 6:28am:
Yeh. Laff while you can. Marty has on balance helped to adjust the the scales pre-loaded for the poison and anti trapping stooges and expose some sorely needed truths.
A pretty stressful effort for the man; so ease off the yuppyness till he can answer you. Hope he relaxes on his "month off" and comes back all square.


Do you agree with him that none of us should post on here "behind the veneer of a false name", huntnfish?

I don't, leave aside that its against the Forum rules.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #96 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:26pm
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Oscar wrote on Aug 30th, 2018 at 7:23pm:
huntnfish wrote on Aug 30th, 2018 at 6:28am:
Yeh. Laff while you can. Marty has on balance helped to adjust the the scales pre-loaded for the poison and anti trapping stooges and expose some sorely needed truths.
A pretty stressful effort for the man; so ease off the yuppyness till he can answer you. Hope he relaxes on his "month off" and comes back all square.


Do you agree with him that none of us should post on here "behind the veneer of a false name", huntnfish?

I don't, leave aside that its against the Forum rules.


Everyone knows who you really are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_the_Grouch

As an aside. I rang OSPRI yesterday, and they are still there.
  

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huntnfish
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #97 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:45pm
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I think the spirit of intent of this type of forum is intended to allow free comment from people of many temperaments, including the shy ones; hence the nicknames. On balance I think each member has a choice.
The issue of politics or similar can lead to interference of several types by business and government and includes some pretty nasty stuff at times. The opposite to this is the reaction from individuals or small groups or small ngo's who do not have the same degree of influence with "the seats of power" or the media which is influenced by advertising revenue and who can feel unfairly ignored, put down, or disadvantaged within debates. Within issues as serious as some discussed on here it is a fact that "the little guys" have to put in a massive amount of time and effort in order to prove their points, usually after months of frustration in trying to extract truths from large gov't dept's or gov't allied NGO's. This effort is generally much larger than the oft glib responses from spin doctors within those gov't departments, or from others who regard such discussions as a sport. I realise there is more to it than this example, but for the "little guy" trying to get views across there is a disproportionate level of effort and stress, which sometimes will create an outburst or other reaction.  Forum members should hesitate to "put the boot in" when this occurs, but it is also true that it is a hard one to judge.
Other issues include the risk some might incur if their personal views are seen to be in some sort of conflict with their employer or even friends; or might compromise some unrelated business negotiation etc. The use of a nickname affords these people a degree of protection and allows opinions to be more freely contributed.
In the end, the old adage "follow the money" generally holds true, therefore there will always be problems of this sort within public forums. At least this one does allow a reasonable compromise, usually, and has not sunk to the level of mob rule extant on FB (which I have never joined), even though some of the info posted on FB and copied to me from time to time does reveal a very significant measure of evolving public opinion on various matters.
The worst thing on these forums are fence sitters whom I consider are treating serious issues as a sporting event. (Does'nt matter in light issues, but it's "horses for courses".
The other aspect, is that within serious issues, people closely involved can, through forums actually have discussions somewhat free of their official contraints, but in this scenario the risks of identification may preclude such productive discussion.
Summing up OSCAR, I don't think there is a  black and white answer to your question. There is no doubt that identities or nicknames count for nothing at gov't / police level because we know for a fact that during the Concord enquiry the police had access to every post along with names,  of every suspect (in their view) from this and other forums. The forum and it's structure, it's moderators etc is what it is, and I have no criticism of the present arrangements because I personally can offer no better solution.
  

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Oscar
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #98 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:54pm
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huntnfish wrote on Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
On balance I think each member has a choice.


Exactly. And that's what the Forum Rules say.

Its not for other members to take away that choice.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #99 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:56pm
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As I said.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #100 - Aug 30th, 2018 at 9:59pm
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Its just a pity Marty disagrees, because I do hope he keeps contributing to the Forum.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #101 - Aug 31st, 2018 at 2:54am
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He just gets a bit carried away due to frustration with officialdom, both past and present, and wears his heart on his sleeve sometimes.
  

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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #102 - Aug 31st, 2018 at 5:39am
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huntnfish wrote on Aug 31st, 2018 at 2:54am:
He just gets a bit carried away due to frustration with officialdom, both past and present, and wears his heart on his sleeve sometimes.


There is nothing wrong with that, however facts are the things that win discussions and well presented facts are impossible to dispute.

Like Oscar i wish him a safe return to the Forum.
  
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Marty Foote
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #103 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:56am
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Salmoner wrote on Aug 31st, 2018 at 5:39am:
huntnfish wrote on Aug 31st, 2018 at 2:54am:
He just gets a bit carried away due to frustration with officialdom, both past and present, and wears his heart on his sleeve sometimes.


There is nothing wrong with that, however facts are the things that win discussions and well presented facts are impossible to dispute.

Like Oscar i wish him a safe return to the Forum.


I agree with you salmoner...My frustration is that I have proven the facts with my own actions...Other trappers have done an even better job than I have ever done, proven with GPS real-time trap-line monitoring and every possum capture recorded by GPS in real-time and none of that information is allowed to be released to the NZ Public because OSPRI forced the trappers to sign confidentiality agreements that meant that if the information was made public the trapper could be prosecuted for breach of confidentiality.

A couple of days ago I was talking with an OSPRI trapping contractor who told me that he had caught 12,000 possums in a 2,000ha OSPRI contracted block that had been poisoned for over a decade and OSPRI had claimed that the poison had killed most of the possums. Where did all the possums suddenly come from?

I am allowed to tell you that story as the trapper has given me permission to do so and he knows that OSPRI will be able to work out who the "information leak" is and he doesn't give a damn any more.

You can be rest assured, that more stories, like that, will be coming out and they won't, just be, second hand stories that Marty Foote is passing onto you, they will be coming straight from the horses mouth.
  
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Re: Orange Fronted Kakariki
Reply #104 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 8:16pm
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Bloody good Marty. It's way overdue that the truth came out.  Wink
  

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