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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Foreign hunters access to nz (Read 2088 times)
jonesy45
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Foreign hunters access to nz
Jun 19th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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So over the past few years Iíve noticed through reading and watching videos that we seem to have a lot more foreign hunters turning up in NZ and being able to wonder off up into our hill country and take themselves hunting(solo hunts), as well as apply for ballots to some of our most sort after and prized blocks that kiwi hunters miss out on. I get that some come over and hire guides and hunt on safari parks and I have no problem with that, but what I do have a problem with is that to go and hunt in any other country is near impossible due to laws and the expense is out of most kiwis range. Iíve been up in the Yukon and Alaska and have seen this first hand as well as the trouble you will get in for doing it. There should be better laws and restrictions around this and I donít think they should be able to apply for ballots as Iíve seen on here the amount of New Zealanders that miss out and have been trying for years at these blocks. I was just looking at a graph and write up of the substantial increase in foreign applications for Tahr ballots and I think this is wrong. Like everywhere else they should have to apply for a hunting permit, tag for the animal they want to hunt and must be accompanied by a guide. No ballot blocks allowed they are for kiwis.
  
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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Jonesey

Last time I checked they donít aerially bait there game animals in in Alaska and the Yukon.. Now I donít disagree with charging for access to our game but we had better start treating them a little better ourselves if we expect foreigners to pay for the right ... Also not sure about access to Tahr areas with guide only ?? I donít think the whole area is over hunted at all , fair enough about the ballot areas but these are hunted by foreigners all year round anyway all though they pay big dollars for the privilege.But what about the guys that come here to hunt on a tight budget ?? Should they be discriminated against because there less well off??  I know the hut I base myself at in Early June only had 3 partyís in in the last 12 months according to the book .  There area heaps of good bulls in this area and clearly the locals arenít that keen on hunting this valley to control numbers why shouldnít visitors go there ? Iíd much rather that than have the animals shot from a chopper or baited wouldnít you ?

I think the issue is a lot more complicated than you think 😉 and a straight comparison with other countryís is pointless ... you canít pick the bits out of there system that suit and apply those it just doesnít work ... You do realize that locals have a ballot system over there for there game also ? A mate of mine has been trying to get a Wapiti tag for about 12 years , would you like a system like that?? Or how about only one deer tag a year??

Not so great a system now is it !!

Ie
  

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jonesy45
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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i_e wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Jonesey

Last time I checked they donít aerially bait there game animals in in Alaska and the Yukon.. Now I donít disagree with charging for access to our game but we had better start treating them a little better ourselves if we expect foreigners to pay for the right ... Also not sure about access to Tahr areas with guide only ?? I donít think the whole area is over hunted at all , fair enough about the ballot areas but these are hunted by foreigners all year round anyway all though they pay big dollars for the privilege.But what about the guys that come here to hunt on a tight budget ?? Should they be discriminated against because there less well off??† I know the hut I base myself at in Early June only had 3 partyís in in the last 12 months according to the book .† There area heaps of good bulls in this area and clearly the locals arenít that keen on hunting this valley to control numbers why shouldnít visitors go there ? Iíd much rather that than have the animals shot from a chopper or baited wouldnít you ?

I think the issue is a lot more complicated than you think 😉 and a straight comparison with other countryís is pointless ... you canít pick the bits out of there system that suit and apply those it just doesnít work ... You do realize that locals have a ballot system over there for there game also ? A mate of mine has been trying to get a Wapiti tag for about 12 years , would you like a system like that?? Or how about only one deer tag a year??

Not so great a system now is it !!

Ie

Think you may have miss interpreted a bit of what I was saying we should never have to apply for tags and New Zealand hunters should always get first option on ballot blocks over foreign hunters. As for hunting on a budget other countryís couldnít give a crap about us so whatís the difference. What Iím saying is regardless they should have to buy a tag, pay a licence and pay a guide. Itís not a (apply and you may not get it system) it should just be the process, cost wise this doesnít have to be through the roof expensive. Maybe this money could be used to support hunting and access to areas. New Zealand is still a cheap destination for traveling and hunting for foreign people and the up side of this is guiding would be a full time job for those that have thought about it if it was compulsory for them to take one.
  
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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i_e wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
But what about the guys that come here to hunt on a tight budget ?? Should they be discriminated against because there less well off?? 


dont discount the moeny brought in by OS hunters too

ive been over your way twice to hunt, i love the place. both times ended up spending plenty on hire cars, fuel, food, booze, choppers etc. All that money happily injected into the economy. i do the same when i go to Victoria as well, cost me plenty to go down there chasing sambar, and the local servos and pubs probably rely on the winter hunting traffic to offset the loss of the warm month tourist trade.

hardest part of hunting NZ, or anywhere for that matter, without a guide as a non local is not having any clue where to go. I cant afford to pay the high USD rates guides are charging for tahr and chamois, so DIY is what ill have to do.

im sure for every 1 non local that shoots an animal on public land over there, there would be dozens who come away unsuccessful, but still having spent money in the local area.

Im wanting to get back there next year, but have NFI where to go, and cant do ballot blocks any more due to the time of year being unsuitable for me, my wife and my hunting mate, so spring it will be.

i tell the wife it costs me less than 2k return.... i hope she believes me....
  
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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Do you have any photos from your Yukon and Alaska hunting you could share?
  
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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jonesy45 wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
i_e wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Jonesey

Last time I checked they donít aerially bait there game animals in in Alaska and the Yukon.. Now I donít disagree with charging for access to our game but we had better start treating them a little better ourselves if we expect foreigners to pay for the right ... Also not sure about access to Tahr areas with guide only ?? I donít think the whole area is over hunted at all , fair enough about the ballot areas but these are hunted by foreigners all year round anyway all though they pay big dollars for the privilege.But what about the guys that come here to hunt on a tight budget ?? Should they be discriminated against because there less well off??† I know the hut I base myself at in Early June only had 3 partyís in in the last 12 months according to the book .† There area heaps of good bulls in this area and clearly the locals arenít that keen on hunting this valley to control numbers why shouldnít visitors go there ? Iíd much rather that than have the animals shot from a chopper or baited wouldnít you ?

I think the issue is a lot more complicated than you think 😉 and a straight comparison with other countryís is pointless ... you canít pick the bits out of there system that suit and apply those it just doesnít work ... You do realize that locals have a ballot system over there for there game also ? A mate of mine has been trying to get a Wapiti tag for about 12 years , would you like a system like that?? Or how about only one deer tag a year??

Not so great a system now is it !!

Ie

Think you may have miss interpreted a bit of what I was saying we should never have to apply for tags and New Zealand hunters should always get first option on ballot blocks over foreign hunters. As for hunting on a budget other countryís couldnít give a crap about us so whatís the difference. What Iím saying is regardless they should have to buy a tag, pay a licence and pay a guide. Itís not a (apply and you may not get it system) it should just be the process, cost wise this doesnít have to be through the roof expensive. Maybe this money could be used to support hunting and access to areas. New Zealand is still a cheap destination for traveling and hunting for foreign people and the up side of this is guiding would be a full time job for those that have thought about it if it was compulsory for them to take one.



I didnít miss the xenophobic tone of your first post at all but I did notice your your lack of response to the questions I asked of you ....  Wink

Iíll expand my earlier thoughts....( someone needs to do some thinking 🤐) The reason foreigners get charged to hunt overseas and locals go in ballots there also is game management!! They have limited game and a huge population of hunters so to protect the herd they manage access . To fund some of this process of game management the charge overseas hunters . Locals just canít go hunting anytime they like as very quickly there would be no game animals left . Overseas hunters realize this an except that to get access they have to pay.

Here itís completely different ( Wapiti excluded) there is no  game management of any real description, in fact game extinction is quite high on the to do list for many in government! It would be very hard to sell a hunting experience to a overseas hunter if the government of a country is doing its best to wipe out the game animals with poison and the locals can go for a shoot up any time they want and the Helicopters are shooting the best heads out for venison recovery !

What Iím saying is start managing the animals properly , create a great herd , then think about selling the experience because then it will be worth selling... there is no comparison atm ( hopefully this will change) between what happens in North America and what you want to happen here... would I pay $8000 for a Stone Sheep  tag in Canada possibly as I know how hard it is to win that tag as a local and 8 bills keeps the average foreign hunter away so Iíd be paying for a rare experience, Now is a Tahr worth $8000 if every local can shoot as many as they like and there also poisoned and helicopter culled ... not to me.

But you donít want proper game management  do you ? You just want want things to stay exactly the same for you but hope to scare the overseas guys away so youíll have more chance in the ballot.. fine but it wonít do the country or the quality of NZís hunting any good in the long term either.
  

alcohol doesn't agree with me , but i sure do enjoy the argument!
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 6:31pm
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And hereís another reason you proposal wonít work .. Say Sven from Sweden wants to hunt a NZ Tahr .. Now to do this he has to cough up $10,000 NZD for the privilege but his hunting buddy Muzz from Christchurch who he befriended on Fishnhunt is joining him and can hunt Tahr and shoot as many as he likes cause heís a local .. Now Muzz is a top bloke like all Kiwi fellas and says to Sven ď Sven† bro , save your cash , weíll pretend I shot all those Tahr and in a few years Iíll ship you over the mount as a memento of our hunt together ď Nudge nudge wink wink!!

Now this type of thing doesnít happen much in Alaska and Canada as well as other parts because locals who have waited years and years for there tag place a high value on it but if they didnít have to get a tag to shoot there system would fail due to I being abused like I highlighted above ..

Canít have a fee without restrictions for locals .. just wont work .. do you really want restrictions?
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:01pm
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Trophy export fee such as GAC has discussed?
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:26pm
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Oscar wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:01pm:
Trophy export fee such as GAC has discussed?



I think that would be a smarter way .!! Wink
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 1:54am
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"Now this type of thing doesnít happen much in Alaska and Canada as well as other parts because locals who have waited years and years for there tag place a high value on it but if they didnít have to get a tag to shoot there system would fail due to I being abused like I highlighted above .."

I think the huge fine, hunting ban and jail time are also quite a deterrent as well  Grin Grin Grin, Until some value is put on game animals and not just meat price on the hook nothing will change, I've hunted in Denmark and the cost was just a license which everyone has to have, but mention that for NZ and 99% have a heart failure, but willing to pay for game birds and trout  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:49am
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been thinking about this a while now and possibly all foreigners to buy tags with all moneys going to gac,,this way the money is available straight away(dont think much of paying for export trophies as if shooting an undersized animal they may just ditch it)
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:25pm
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Are there two separate issues being discussed here? One being the competition from foreigners for ballot spots, and the other just what rules should apply to non NZers who want to hunt here in 'open' blocks of PCL?

I have some sympathy for the OP's point about Kiwi's having their grass cut on ballots by tauiwi, but it may be a breach of Jacinda's CPTPP if we were to regulate against it?  Huh
  
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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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wazza56 wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 1:54am:
"Now this type of thing doesnít happen much in Alaska and Canada as well as other parts because locals who have waited years and years for there tag place a high value on it but if they didnít have to get a tag to shoot there system would fail due to I being abused like I highlighted above .."

I think the huge fine, hunting ban and jail time are also quite a deterrent as well† Grin Grin Grin, Until some value is put on game animals and not just meat price on the hook nothing will change, I've hunted in Denmark and the cost was just a license which everyone has to have, but mention that for NZ and 99% have a heart failure, but willing to pay for game birds and trout† Roll Eyes


Huge fines and jail time have a huge impact also .... but very very hard to know who pull the trigger unless the inspector is right there when the shot is taken Wink

I think be very careful what you wish for ... yep they might introduce a fee for foreigners but they just might at the same time charge the locals a fee also... They way Jacindaís going the government is going to need some more funds soon Cheesy
  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #13 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 6:24pm
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Since DOC doubled the cost of a great walk hut booking for tourists the number of people claiming to be New Zealanders booking the walks has doubled this season† Grin

Funny that....... Huh

If DOC are charging tourists a premium for using the Great Walks facilities why can't extend that and restrict the numbers and charge tourist hunters a premium for hunting here ?

I would be happy to pay a fee to DOC for hunting in NZ and even happier to see a bigger fee and conditions put on tourist hunters



  

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Re: Foreign hunters access to nz
Reply #14 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 6:46pm
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I brought this issue up because I wanted to get other peopleís views on the subject and there are some valid points raised with foreign hunters to this country, Which obviously hit a bit of a sore point with a certain person† Wink but this is what I wanted to understand a bit better. I think paying a licence for foreign hunters would be a good idea like trout fishing and duck shooting, as I guided some friends from the states fly fishing a few years ago and they said it was the best fun they had for the $100 licence they brought. As for the issue of aerial hunting and baiting I hate this as much as anyone else but I see this as an access issue. There are so many places in New Zealand that hunters canít access due to say someone owning or have the grazing rights to the one 200 meter paddock you need to cross to access the doc land behind it, But wonít let anyone through or they have shut the place up to walking traffic for the winter because itís people not stock messing there paddock up. I think everyone has had this problem with access at some stage. I know there are huts in the ruahines you canít get to because of this or to get there is one hell of a mission for the weekend Hunter and not worth the hassle. A mate and I just experienced this down south trying to get access into a number of place. We went on a wild goose chase trying to get permission to access what was doc land but someone had grazing rights and locked it all up with signs on it. If doc put more money into negotiating and buying access routes to places instead of dropping 1080 and aerial culling the animal numbers would be a little different. The other thing is there are a numbers of places aerial access is not allowed (but why?) I donít think they want any of us in there either, as well as pests.
  
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