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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer. (Read 15957 times)
GRYPHON
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #15 - May 20th, 2018 at 7:09am
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An excellent initiative.They did it with the islands in the southern ocean for rats mice and  a million rabbits.
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #16 - May 20th, 2018 at 11:54pm
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There will be a difference though. Those Islands probably did not have the diversity that already exists on Stewart Island. 

Id like to know more about the actual plan, or doesnt that exist yet?
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #17 - May 21st, 2018 at 12:05am
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headcase wrote on May 20th, 2018 at 11:54pm:
Id like to know more about the actual plan, or doesnt that exist yet?


Are you asking me that q`s?

If so they used traps and sniffer dogs to find every rabbit and cat etc

https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/pages/f47bc054-b46d-40f2-85a5-782552...



Macquarie Island Shows Consequences of Cat Eradication - The New ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/science/17isla.html
Feb 16, 2009 - Macquarie Island looks beautiful, but it has become a sobering illustration ... With the cats gone, the island's rabbits (also non-native) began to ...
Macquarie Island, once ruled by rabbits, is saved by the dogs
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/.../macquarie-island...rabbits.../903fb81b589d5....
Feb 20, 2016 - October 2009, Macquarie Island, halfway between New Zealand and Antarctica. ... No surprise: the cats went feral and the rabbits and rodents ...
Macquarie Island wildlife recovering after rabbit eradication - ABC ...
www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-19/macquarie-island...rabbit-eradication/6400834
Apr 18, 2015 - After decades of being overrun with feral rabbits, World Heritage-listed Macquarie Island is on its way to returning to the wildlife haven it once .
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #18 - May 21st, 2018 at 12:12am
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Just remember DoC can be quite selective about what they decide is a pest....when it suits them Huh
A few years ago (and as to be expected was kept very hush hush) DoC permitted a certain local tribe to shoot a bunch of seals on one of the little offshore Islands. Why you ask???
Cause they were squashing the entrances to a bunch of mutton bird burrows, and the locals wanted to ensure their mutton bird harvest remained high, as selling mutton birds is good business.
So one mans native animal can be the next mans pest.
I would call any attempt to eradicate the white tail herd from Stewart Island disingenuous, when DoC have been happy to permit cats to be bought to the island, and remain pets, when they have also been attempting to control their numbers there for the last 30 odd years.
I would hope the fact that the herd brings in an enormous amount of business to the Islands economy, that they would continue to be permitted to survive there.
  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #19 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 11:37pm
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What a wonderful opportunity it is if only DOC had bigger vision to realize that this island could be a show piece for all the world to see how by using man to control all the pests ...rats ,stoats, weasels,wild cats & wasps, to be able to almost wipe them out, cause you never will have 100% eradication. But I think there are other parties with their agendas who hold hands with DOC & sensibility will never be at the foremost. As EC mentioned, nature will balance itself out - until man gets in the way!
Personally I think DOC should be totally disbanded & a new infrastructure be set up,based on the objectives of the majority with on going accountability. After all its my tax money being thrown away.
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #20 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 10:52am
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I agree.
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #21 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 4:13am
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levactn wrote on Jun 26th, 2018 at 11:37pm:
What a wonderful opportunity it is if only DOC had bigger vision to realize that this island could be a show piece for all the world to see how by using man to control all the pests ...rats ,stoats, weasels,wild cats & wasps, to be able to almost wipe them out, cause you never will have 100% eradication. But I think there are other parties with their agendas who hold hands with DOC & sensibility will never be at the foremost. As EC mentioned, nature will balance itself out - until man gets in the way!
Personally I think DOC should be totally disbanded & a new infrastructure be set up,based on the objectives of the majority with on going accountability. After all its my tax money being thrown away.


You mean like this place ?  Roll Eyes

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12016997


  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #22 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:36am
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If its anything like the MacQuarrie island poisoning, there will have been hundreds of protected seabirds
killed as well. Where are the DoC figures for bykill and coastal marine effects? Like the shellfish and blue cod absorbing brodifacoum after the Ulva island drop; where DoC poisoned because they failed to maintain the network of traplines established by volunteers over years?   !
  

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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #23 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 6:25am
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All introduced animals are considered as pests or predators by DOC and F&B. The possum is a herbivore and is labelled a predator. The term "predator" is used as an emotive term to generate support form urban folk who will never enter the bush and learn, for themselves, what the actual real dynamics are

DOC cannot openly label deer as pests, to be killed the same way they can target possums, however, there is a belief, within DOC and extremists like F&B, that deer should be considered pests to be eradicated.

There is another way of looking at deer management, which actually was being implemented, very effectively, when deer cullers and government shooters were being employed. The other way is to look at hunters, in the absence of large predators like wolves, as the top end predator to be encouraged to do what wolves do in other areas.

When wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone the deer populations did decline and there were benefits that led to degraded vegetation that has recovered. However, the fact that wolves were killing deer was not the whole story about recovering vegetation. The deer changed their feeding patterns as a result of being hunted by wolves. The deer were no longer able to stay in preferred habitats and the wolves were acting as shepherds would act by ensuring the deer were continually moving onto new grazing.

In the days of the NZ deer culler and government shooter there was a network of huts and tracks set up to support the top end deer predator. The hunters were targeted into certain catchments until the numbers of deer shot were low and they were then moved into new catchments. The hunters did not shoot all the deer as the deer moved away from where the hunters were operating. The hunters were doing the same job that the wolves are now doing in Yellowstone.

After the deer numbers took a dive the numbers of deer shot was much the same, on an annual basis, even after NZFS took over the deer shooting role from Internal Affairs and changed the name from deer culler to government shooter. The only difference was that the shooters were paid less and more money was spent on building supporting infrastructure like huts and tracks. In recent years much of the supporting infrastructure has been destroyed with the only huts and tracks remaining being the ones that DOC can justify charging fees for. The destruction of huts, hunter camps and the refusal to maintain tracks has been deliberately done in a bid to recreate "wilderness areas". This has had the flow on effect that it is becoming ever more increasingly difficult and expensive for hunters to carry out the role of top predator.

The fact that "Wilderness areas", without supporting hunting infrastructure, are being promoted should be warning signals that the plan is to find ways of killing deer that does not involve hunters. If the huts and tracks were rebuilt and huts were comfortable, had reliable sources of fuel (firewood/gas) and food safes, as had been supplied in the past, combined with a planned hunting programme that encourages hunters to shoot deer in places where the deer have moved to, you could recreate the same result that has happened in Yellowstone with the interactions between wolves, deer and vegetation recovery.

DOC has actually set the precedence with the continued use of goat hunters who are still doing what the government shooters, of old, used to do with the exception they are only targeting goats. The need for goat hunters was established when it was realised that goats could not be controlled using aerial 1080 and the only method of effective control was to use hunters.
  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #24 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 6:53am
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huntnfish wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:36am:
If its anything like the MacQuarrie island poisoning, there will have been hundreds of protected seabirds
killed as well. Where are the DoC figures for bykill and coastal marine effects? Like the shellfish and blue cod absorbing brodifacoum after the Ulva island drop; where DoC poisoned because they failed to maintain the network of traplines established by volunteers over years?   !


Quite simply you agreed with levactn that you will never get 100% kill. All i did was point out you were incorrect ?


  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #25 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 9:36am
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Salmoner wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 6:53am:
huntnfish wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:36am:
If its anything like the MacQuarrie island poisoning, there will have been hundreds of protected seabirds
killed as well. Where are the DoC figures for bykill and coastal marine effects? Like the shellfish and blue cod absorbing brodifacoum after the Ulva island drop; where DoC poisoned because they failed to maintain the network of traplines established by volunteers over years?   !


Quite simply you agreed with levactn that you will never get 100% kill. All i did was point out you were incorrect ?



There are some points for consideration here:

1) The massive scale of the poisoning on the smaller islands will never be repeated on Stewart Island as there will be such a big by-kill in order to eradicate rodents.

2) DOC is not reporting any by-kill figures for their island eradication programmes. We don't know how many unmonitored species of insects and birds that have also been eradicated. We don't know to the extent that sea life has been poisoned or any longer term ramifications of the poisoning of sea life or the loss of unmonitored insect species.

3) On larger islands and the mainland, with more diverse ecosystems, aerial poisoning is never going to eradicate rodents, stoats, cats, possums, etc without finishing off with traps. If traps are going to be needed to finish the job off, why not using traps from the start and take no risks as to poisoning the ecosystem and causing damage that may never be rectified?

4) Why has the debate got to the point where DOC feels the need to heavily defend aerial poisoning, at any cost, even in the face of DOC's own field staff and scientists calling for them to have the ability to use more ground based methods because the ground based methods are working and there are none of the negative ramification that go with aerial poisoning?
  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #26 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 10:00am
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There are NO other points to consider. The statement was made , "you will never get complete eradication". That statement has proven to be 100% incorrect. Pretty simple really, do you wish to debate that ?

The other information you wish to discuss is pure distraction from the incorrect statement that was made.
  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #27 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 6:48pm
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Marty Foote wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 9:36am:
Salmoner wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 6:53am:
huntnfish wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:36am:
If its anything like the MacQuarrie island poisoning, there will have been hundreds of protected seabirds
killed as well. Where are the DoC figures for bykill and coastal marine effects? Like the shellfish and blue cod absorbing brodifacoum after the Ulva island drop; where DoC poisoned because they failed to maintain the network of traplines established by volunteers over years?   !


Quite simply you agreed with levactn that you will never get 100% kill. All i did was point out you were incorrect ?



There are some points for consideration here:

1) The massive scale of the poisoning on the smaller islands will never be repeated on Stewart Island as there will be such a big by-kill in order to eradicate rodents.

2) DOC is not reporting any by-kill figures for their island eradication programmes. We don't know how many unmonitored species of insects and birds that have also been eradicated. We don't know to the extent that sea life has been poisoned or any longer term ramifications of the poisoning of sea life or the loss of unmonitored insect species.

3) On larger islands and the mainland, with more diverse ecosystems, aerial poisoning is never going to eradicate rodents, stoats, cats, possums, etc without finishing off with traps. If traps are going to be needed to finish the job off, why not using traps from the start and take no risks as to poisoning the ecosystem and causing damage that may never be rectified?

4) Why has the debate got to the point where DOC feels the need to heavily defend aerial poisoning, at any cost, even in the face of DOC's own field staff and scientists calling for them to have the ability to use more ground based methods because the ground based methods are working and there are none of the negative ramification that go with aerial poisoning?

There are negative ramifications for trapping though,  I for one know of kiwis caught in traps. So while I agree with you it is hard to say there is none of the negative ramifications. There are less would be better.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #28 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 8:58pm
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Quote:
DOC has actually set the precedence with the continued use of goat hunters who are still doing what the government shooters, of old, used to do with the exception they are only targeting goats. The need for goat hunters was established when it was realised that goats could not be controlled using aerial 1080 and the only method of effective control was to use hunters.


Grin Grin Your dreaming, Marty

The need for goat culling is no different now than it was 60 years ago.
The breed amd multiply, and if not controlled, are a pest
Commercial hunting isn't an option, so employeed hunters did it, and still do.
For a time, the new DOC didn't understand the need to control goats, but eventually did
many places have never stopped the goat control

1080 has SFA to do with it
Actually, cut vege poisoning of goats with 1080 gel was shown to be effective.


  
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Re: Predator Free Rakiura (Stewart Island) - A step closer.
Reply #29 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 11:37pm
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I know of someone very well who is involved with the Goat killing thing,for DOC.
DOC at the top are quite pissed that the 1080 does not drop the goats as it does  the deer,,don't know if that applies to all DOC  bods or not.
My friend remarked that he and his culling mates were specifically told to shoot every deer they could also.Now whether or not that was only for a certain block,I didn't ask.
Thanks Marty fi dreaming that one  Grin


  

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