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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) DOC renege on promised review of WARO (Read 6641 times)
SF90
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #30 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 9:35am
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trip wrote on Mar 4th, 2018 at 1:18pm:
LNIRDF Is great but we need one unified National voice.


Dead right there - and numbers will count.

One thing with the LNIRDF is unless you do internet banking, which I don't - then they're bloody hard to join up with or get money into.
They also ignore emails.

My wife usually does all that for me, but as we are currently having a 'spat' I'm having to walk quite a long way around her and until she apologises - that is how it will stay.

It's hard to criticize NZDA, they do very good work in many areas - young hunter training etc, etc.
I joined up all my family with them - and it was worth it just for the use of the local range where for the cost of the range key ($30) gives me the opportunity to use that facility almost every day of the year.
The cost of upgrading and maintaining the Rotorua range was massive - and I assume that applies nation wide.

I will stay with them, but I look forward to the day we get that rarest of rare things - a unified national voice.

  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #31 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 10:21pm
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I heard a rumour with a CAA employee that with D.O.Cs ban on Robinson Helicopters because of safety issues  Roll Eyes may be an issue with current WARO operators having to be forced to operate with the more expensive turbine helicopters thus incurring higher costs,less profit margin?
Seems like a technicality in the sensitive area of Health and Safety?
Bit of a shame for most of the good blokes making a living at present in a Robinson machine doing WARO. Cool
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #32 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 12:47am
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Thanks for the support guys. will hopefully get membership responses  sorted soon. 3 weeks  south coming up very soon Smiley
Just been in the tararuas, local WARO decided to get into it. Seemed like wherever I went, he turned up, even in a Squirrel one day, shooting
Still managed to get some venison, but I expect the stag population will be lower over the Roar, this year. Maybe then some hunters might wonder why


and dont forget the damage done by the 1080 drops either ,this would also have a big impact  on deer numbers not just waro, as you always like to state, a balanced view would be more appropriate
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #33 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 5:36am
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So caa talking and telling fibs,must have old staff back,doc have not stopped the 44 on deer etc,still dropping 1080 with them, Grin
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #34 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 12:32pm
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pope wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 12:47am:
Tararua Hunter wrote on Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Thanks for the support guys. will hopefully get membership responses  sorted soon. 3 weeks  south coming up very soon Smiley
Just been in the tararuas, local WARO decided to get into it. Seemed like wherever I went, he turned up, even in a Squirrel one day, shooting
Still managed to get some venison, but I expect the stag population will be lower over the Roar, this year. Maybe then some hunters might wonder why


and dont forget the damage done by the 1080 drops either ,this would also have a big impact  on deer numbers not just waro, as you always like to state, a balanced view would be more appropriate


All of the forest parks get 1080'd here, Pope. Aorangi using repellent. hunting groups seem to be happy with the results of that, probably the best of a bad deal

The LNIRDF position on 1080 is, that where aerial predator control is going to occur, then at least deer repellent is used. Its the deer we're conserned about

Northwest Ruahine went ahead without repellent, to which the LNIRDF had several discussions with the regional Director about.

He was sympathetic, but the Ruahines would have used the netire supply of NZs deer repellent, it seems. there were 'higher priorities" decided by NZDA/GAC (mainly smaller, more "at risk" populations, so Ruahine missed out

next time we might get heard better

The Ruahines got hit twice, WARO before and then 1080 (NW block)

We believe that WARO has a bigger impact on hunters. Stags (big and potential) are taken mainly, and deer are taken from the places deer prefer, - the same places rec hunters on foot go. That, and the effects of WARO are ongoing, so long as venison price is ok

The lowest deer populations in NZ occurred during the height of the WARO industry. we seem to be headed for yet another boom in venison prices, so expect more pressure to let WARO into existing Closed/restricted areas

That is the battle we have at present, plus moving towards a more sustainable WARO/Rec hunting

The Ruahine Deer Plan is heading towards just that, hopefully and will be a first for Red Deer Management
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #35 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 2:07pm
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pope wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 12:47am:
Tararua Hunter wrote on Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Thanks for the support guys. will hopefully get membership responses  sorted soon. 3 weeks  south coming up very soon Smiley
Just been in the tararuas, local WARO decided to get into it. Seemed like wherever I went, he turned up, even in a Squirrel one day, shooting
Still managed to get some venison, but I expect the stag population will be lower over the Roar, this year. Maybe then some hunters might wonder why


and dont forget the damage done by the 1080 drops either ,this would also have a big impact  on deer numbers not just waro, as you always like to state, a balanced view would be more appropriate


So far as I can see the more distance we put between the WARO argument and 1080 the better. 

DOC have been hugely successful in painting the anti-1080 crowd as nutters lets not let that rub off on the WARO debate.

WARO guys target the best animals in the most productive areas.  Direct competition for us ground hunting folk.

Cheers, Dan
  

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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #36 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 7:57pm
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Doin’ this by cellfone out of NZ with dodgy internet so cant see all the thread. Has anyone sent an email/ letter on this issue to Eugenie Sage? And if so did you get an acknowledgement or response? For me its yes, and no.
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #37 - Mar 6th, 2018 at 8:35pm
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Agree with you TH. The Sika Foundation can get all Kaimanawa and Kaweka areas done with repellent and Land-Care research scientist Graeme Nuggent  did a camera study and a massive ground search post drop.  Estimated a 10% deer kill. Most of the deer killed were under a year old with only a couple of older ones. Its about hunters putting in submissions and demanding repellent, as 1080 isn't going to go away over night.  Further you have to show DOC that you are working towards conservation benefits with better out comes for all.  The Sika Foundation has organized hunts flying groups of three hunters into areas that have been opened up so helicopters can put hunters on ground. These areas were out of bounds for landing but DOC saw the conservation benefits and let them land. The areas where the bush is in poor condition and thin out the hinds which are also in poor condition.  Poor conditioned hinds don't cycle and that flows onto a poor area for the roar. Its not a 5 minute fix will take at least 5 years before benefits will start to show up. Better bush environment, better quality deer and better roar hunting experiences.
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #38 - Mar 7th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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LOVETT wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 2:07pm:
pope wrote on Mar 6th, 2018 at 12:47am:
Tararua Hunter wrote on Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Thanks for the support guys. will hopefully get membership responses  sorted soon. 3 weeks  south coming up very soon Smiley
Just been in the tararuas, local WARO decided to get into it. Seemed like wherever I went, he turned up, even in a Squirrel one day, shooting
Still managed to get some venison, but I expect the stag population will be lower over the Roar, this year. Maybe then some hunters might wonder why


and dont forget the damage done by the 1080 drops either ,this would also have a big impact  on deer numbers not just waro, as you always like to state, a balanced view would be more appropriate


So far as I can see the more distance we put between the WARO argument and 1080 the better. 

DOC have been hugely successful in painting the anti-1080 crowd as nutters lets not let that rub off on the WARO debate.

WARO guys target the best animals in the most productive areas.  Direct competition for us ground hunting folk.

Cheers, Dan


This is the sort of comment that slows the whole process down for everybody.

DOC's end game is to kill every introduced wild animal. Rec hunters, meat hunters and possum trappers are all affected equally.

DOC is doing a fine job of splitting off the rec hunters from the guys that hunt for a living. I can also assure you that DOC is not seeing me, and other contract trappers, as simply "anti-1080 nutters", as DOC are back at the negotiating table talking through the issues they are publicly rubbishing.

The solutions we want implemented will happen a lot quicker if we are all working together and setting the ground rules of the negotiations, instead of allowing DOC to continue to make the ground rules, which includes, pitting interests groups against each other when they should be working with each other if we want to be a more effective force to be reckoned with.

1080 does kill more deer than aerial meat hunting. Some deer hunters have always shot deer for meat to sell. The disagreements about meat hunting vs rec hunting have been around for as long as deer have been hunted.

Rec hunters, meat hunters and DOC should be able to agree on a formula that allows for all forms of deer hunting and enables native wildlife to thrive, except, DOC's end game is the eradication of all wild animals including wild deer.

All hunters, deer and otherwise, are equally affected by DOC's end game as there will, quite simply, be no wild animals left if DOC has their way.
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #39 - Mar 7th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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I agree there marty with what you say, i've sent 2 emails to the new minister of conservation and only received one back, she didnt answer my first one i sent last year over my concerns how she is intending to deal with recreational hunting, etc, she answered my second one recently over another issue, which has still left me wondering.
,it does take some time for them to answer.i will send another to her to see what sort of response i get.

I also received a letter from Mark Patterson NZF spokesperson for 1080.
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #40 - Mar 7th, 2018 at 5:24pm
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pope wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 4:13pm:
I agree there marty with what you say, i've sent 2 emails to the new minister of conservation and only received one back, she didnt answer my first one i sent last year over my concerns how she is intending to deal with recreational hunting, etc, she answered my second one recently over another issue, which has still left me wondering.
,it does take some time for them to answer.i will send another to her to see what sort of response i get.

I also received a letter from Mark Patterson NZF spokesperson for 1080.


Now here's an interesting thing...An Aussie from right over the other side of Australia has replies from Eugene Sage and Mark Patterson, both of whom are directly involved with what is going on right now.

How many of this forum's posters have letters from people like Eugene or Mark? How many have written letters to the Minister and Director General of Conservation or politicians that have made pre election promises designed to get votes?

I have got stacks of replies from the people concerned. Sometimes, they didn't want to answer my questions, however, after determined persistence, in some cases lasting many years, I have got the replies. It is the replies that allows me to demand that DOC talk with contract trappers as a serious contender for wild animal control work.

If you do not get the answers to your questions and are brushed off with some PR blurb, you have no choice except to keep going back to them until your questions are answered to your complete satisfaction.

A word of advice: Do not approach the Ombudsman until you have fully canvassed all possible ways to get the information you have asked for. If you do take the advice, at the bottom of DOC letters to ask the Ombudsman to investigate, you are guaranteeing that it will take you 3-4 times as long to get the information as the Ombudsman, after 6-8 months, will advise you to go back to DOC with a new approach.

If individuals did ask the questions, of the Powers that Be, and kept going until the required information was forthcoming, two things would happen:

1) DOC would start changing their tune as information is power. With more information in the hands of individuals, opposed to DOC policy, DOC would reconsider their policies.

2) NZDA and GAC would not be in the position of walking the tightrope of trying to keep their membership happy and continuing unsatisfactory slow dialogue with DOC.

You have more power to influence what is happening than you believe. Well worded letters and questions, from individuals, are very important. It is unfair to simply complain, on forums like this, down at the pub, etc, if you are not prepared to stand up and do what you are expecting other people to do.
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #41 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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UPDATE
we have received copious amounts of emails, documents from an OIA request. from DOC

seems

-Until September 2017, a full review was planned (since 2015)
-a WARO representative complained to DOC and the review was canned,

-one of the complaints, was DOc intending to seek "sustainable deer management". They were threatened with legal action, if they didn't change it

-WARO don't want any more Boom and Bust, but are happy theyre now in the beginnings of a Boom, and inevitably, will come the bust. But don't want anyone telling them a more sustainable way of operating

-The GAC boycotted the meetings and raised their objections to the reneging on the review with DOC, quite strongly

-DOC replied the the discussions with rec hunters ate the 3 meetings (NZDA and LNIRDF only) did not show the same level of concern as the GAC was expressing. Except for the LNIRDF, who did mack there objections known Smiley

-it seems that the apparent passive response by the NZDA (Weathered was there, I don't think he was too passive!)) has allowed DOC to minimise the hunter backlash

-DOC held meetings with WARO only, but hunters were excluded. But in the hunter meetings, WARO were invited. that amounted to a separate lobbying opportunity for WARO, something hunters have never been given by DOC. This is why DOC lost the High Court challenge, because of favouritism shown to WARO

-its obvious DOC decided to cancel the review, because the commercial WARo guys said they were happy. (a bit more money in venison now) - not very good business management IMO Undecided

The GAC appear to be persuing the issue with the government, and not letting it go. I think they feel shafted by DOC

Looks like another legal challenge coming up Undecided
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #42 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:37pm
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Some else I just uncovered, is that

- DOC are using the latest deer monitoring methods and have data showing increasing deer numbers. - probly not rocket science

- re RHAs and other Closed/restricted areas that currently exist; DOC have told WARO that they can lodge special applications to shoot the likes of RHAs on a one off basis.

For those that currently hunt RHAs and the like, (like me), don't think they going to be safe from Helicopters indefinitely. If DOC have the data showing increasing deer numbers, and WARO make an application for permits, it could be bad news.

If you think it wont happen, get your head out of your arse. it happened in 2015 up here. Undecided

below is another monster that's gone for a ride under a chopper, from the west coast

  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #43 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 8:07pm
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Impressive head, iv heard about the big 16 that got shot and assume it's that one.

How long did the last venison boom go on for?
  
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Re: DOC renege on promised review of WARO
Reply #44 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 8:18pm
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tw wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Impressive head, iv heard about the big 16 that got shot and assume it's that one.

How long did the last venison boom go on for?


as I recall, venison prices have coming and going over last 10 years.
But the big one obviously was from the late 60s thru to the late 70s, and then moved onto live deer capture.
After live deer capture stopped, it was back to venison, which went on until the downturn - in 2003 or so. not sure bout when.

there will no doubt be another downturn, but the venison factories seem optomistic in the medium term
  
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