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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) 9 Wapiti (Read 15360 times)
Sika 9
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #105 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 6:45pm
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My 2 cents....While I agree with the FWF work and dedication to their goals and totally applaud them  they need to realise they dont own the deer. Ben there are a lot of self appointed sheriffs out there weather personally or as a group in our sport/hobby/lifestyle and you owe none of them an explanation.. Ive hunted in the ballot down there, drove down to Te Anau from Matamata in a dirty old ford courier with my brother and we were both totally appalled at the "speech" given by Bruce or whatever his name was. While I spent the whole trip letting animals go if I wanted to shoot one for meat I would have or even a stag that I considered a trophy for me that was not considered a trophy by someone else. A lot of people who are up in arms over this have shit in other peoples nests too.
  

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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #106 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 7:07pm
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GH & Sika 9, do you not get it? If it weren’t for the fwf efforts there wouldn’t be the wapiti bulls there now for these pillocks to shoot? And they aren’t contributing to them, what Greg is saying is if you miss out on a ballot, go in after the bugle once they have sown there seeds.
GH you wouldn’t go shooting your rams before they had been put out for tupping?  Roll Eyes
  
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Sika 9
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #107 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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I agree mate and like I said totally hats off to them for their efforts. BUT they dont own the deer or have any right to push their agenda on anyone. I agree with what they are doing and sympathise with what has happened but this is hunting in NZ. But in the end of the day if the sika were in the wapiti's shoes Id be just as passionate if my slice of the pie was being smashed. But to be honest if a young fella turns up to camp this roar and shot a spiker and was proud as Id shake his hand and say well done. Id do my best to educate him and leave with the hope they take it on board. Like I said I think education is the key and I don think the minority will spoil it for the majority.
  

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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #108 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 9:58pm
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Lead by example.   

Screw the rumours and witch hunt posts.
  
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Greg Duley, NZ Hunter
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #109 - Feb 28th, 2018 at 10:06pm
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GH, how you come to that conclusion out of what I said I have no idea! It has nothing to do with jealousy, its simply about keeping the FWF's herd management going, which is the only reason we have a herd worth hunting at all. They have brought it back from certain extinction as a Wapiti hunting experience.
Yes, if pre-rut hunting is to continue, then they must contribute to the management, both financially and with all the other things the ballot hunters have to do, you are correct there. But thankfully the FWF has run the surveys and knows exactly what the vast majority of hunters want, and it ain't pre-rut hunting with all the negatives for the herd it entails, so they don't have to listen to opinions on forums from what may well be the vocal minority for all they know.

Sika 9, you went down in the ballot, presumably paid your money and contributed to the management, and there would have been absolutely nothing wrong if you had shot something for meat. There are plenty of suitable meat animals (any female to start with), and if you had been lucky enough to find and shoot a valued trophy, then good on you. You had contributed to the management by participating in the ballot and had earned the right to be there. The FWF is culling about 1000+ Red deer and Wapiti a year out of there now. There are so many good blooded cows now in some blocks that they are having to cull Wapiti, not just Reds, to keep the numbers down and the vegetation in a good state for both biodiversity and the feed quality and quantity required to have a good trophy Wapiti herd.

The whole title of this thread is wrong, it doesn't matter if someone shot 9 Wapiti cows, its the fact they shot all males, a lot of them way too young and pre-rut in January - if what we are told about what was shot is true - again, totally detrimental to the FWF's herd management.

But Sika 9 you are quite wrong about the FWF and the Wapiti, and once again, they are nothing like Sika. The FWF with the support of DoC does have the say about what goes on in the Wapiti herd, backed up by the vast majority of hunters. They have the right to exclude people from future ballots if they don't play by the rules.
Again, if any of the minority don't like the FWF's management which has the overwhelming support of the hunters, then its simple, don't go there.
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #110 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:27am
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Greg so if we want good management and shooting pre rut is a big no no then why the f**k do you insist we wait to harass the herd at the most crucial time of breeding season?  hunting during bugle upsets ALL animals so if you and fwf were serious then how about delaying ballots untill after the Bugle?

trophies will still be hard antler, would have successfuly bred without being shot before all cows serviced and ALL bulls young and old would have a better chance of surviving hunters by not alerting the valley of their location. win win for wapiti but hunters are to selfish to face a lose lose situation.
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #111 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 8:06am
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Unless the area was completely closed off duing the roar there will be the same people there shooting the same blocks. Just more of them..

The ballot is a way of controlling the numbers of hunters hunting at that time.
  

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Greg Duley, NZ Hunter
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #112 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 8:07am
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Really GH???? At least if hunted and even with some shot during the bugle the biggest bulls that rut and bred first will have a had a chance to cover some cows. If they're shot in January, well...
And hopefully for the last time I'll need to say this, what has brought the Wapiti herd back from certain extinction is the FWF's management. And that management is funded by the ballot hunters. No ballot hunters, no FWF management, no future for the Wapiti.
And that is the issue with non contributing (both management wise and financially to the management) pre-rut hunters - its puts all of the above in jeopardy.
And unless something new/worth discussing comes up, I think we may as well leave it at that.

  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #113 - Mar 1st, 2018 at 8:10am
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Dude... you need to tone it down... if you want to debate that's fine but you don't need to start swearing!

Part of the experience of hunting Wapiti and the main time people pursue them is during the bugle to get the experience of hearing and watching bugling bulls and hopefully enticing the big boy in.

Hopefully you know what that experience is like when you've hunted deer (red, Sika, Fallow, Rusa, Sambar) during their roar periods.

As mentioned before and as we all know... if it wasn't for the FWF there wouldn't be a herd.... just look at the heads of what was being shot in the 80's and look at what heads are being shot today.

I wish the FWF all the best as i know they put in alot of volunteer hours for what they do so my hat goes off to them.

The Wapiti are in a unique situation as its the only herd in the country which is being managed where there's alot of negativety and opposition against the FWF for what they do amongst hunters so if hunters can't support the FWF in their efforts then what chance do we have of trying to manage other herds.

How would hunter's treat a similar model being put in place for the Wakatipu Whitetail herd which gets thrashed? 

I think the ballot blocks should be closed from the 1st January onwards!
  

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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #114 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:38pm
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heard nothing of the sorts over this side, but again these kind of things stay pretty hush and australias quite large so doesn't always come from the major hunting loops.....
sucks to hear though!

its a bit like that waikomorona crew on youtube Rafting down the Snowy River an shooting Stags , all on video.... all highly illegal Tongue Cheesy LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDZgM1Trvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpfSvQmJFCE

lol
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #115 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 12:44pm
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gonehuntin wrote on Mar 1st, 2018 at 7:27am:
Greg so if we want good management and shooting pre rut is a big no no then why the f**k do you insist we wait to harass the herd at the most crucial time of breeding season?  hunting during bugle upsets ALL animals so if you and fwf were serious then how about delaying ballots untill after the Bugle?

trophies will still be hard antler, would have successfuly bred without being shot before all cows serviced and ALL bulls young and old would have a better chance of surviving hunters by not alerting the valley of their location. win win for wapiti but hunters are to selfish to face a lose lose situation.


I have to Say that I often Question this too.......
the 'easiest' time to kill a bull an people line up at the door .....

a fellow I knew was or is heading into fiordland before the ballot stuff starts,  I asked weather he could take wapititi an to which he answered, sure!
I thought they could only be shot during the roar/ballot period..

so I was left scratching my head at How this is allowed to happen and what a uproar the ballot roar is  Cheesy

one day I will go to fiord for a troph wap... mark me words
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #116 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 1:00pm
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Totally agree with above...in reality taking any mature trophy bulls out is counter productive to any efforts...We bang on as hunters about letting them grow...then as soon as they are fully grown smack them out when they should be left to breed up and spread their genes big time!
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #117 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 1:28pm
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Genetics doesn't change with age, if a mature bull with good genetics is shot then it's had many years to pass on those genes but if it was shot young then it wont. Pretty simple really.
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #118 - Mar 4th, 2018 at 8:58pm
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Yes but older more mature bull will most likely have better breeding chances with command of cows in his area therefore able to spread his genes further...I am not against this practice but really as hunters we are not helping by knocking over the big boys...it's like fishing...the biggest fish are the best breeders so should be left to do that....I think as hunters justifying taking a rack is tricky thinking really!...only fooling yourself IMO....
  
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Re: 9 Wapiti
Reply #119 - Mar 5th, 2018 at 1:28pm
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This has been a very interesting thread to follow, every hunter is different and sets their own ethical or moral compass and we as a group have to except that not everyone is the same, some will shoot hinds with fawns at foot, some will shoot Wapiti in Jan, some will blast as many deer as possible and others won’t follow up wounded animals.
This particular story about groups of hunters and maybe guides helping in the shooting of Wapiti in late Jan may affect me more than most as I have drawn the Upper Glaisnock this year, am I jealous as has been suggest in this post “No” as I to could have gone in Jan and shot Waipti as well.
I want a well-managed Wapiti herd in NZ and the FWF is by far the most likely to achieve this, so I am happy to pay my money take my chances in the ballot and go along with the unwritten rules.
Some peoples excuse is “no law was broken” and they are right , but it’s a shame when the one time and the one herd that we as  hunters have a chance to manage comes down to a written law policy being needed. It sounds like the FWF if possible will alter the laws to stop hunting in Jan, something most hunters probably did not really think needed to spelt out in such a way.
I have won a ballot once before and could not believe how good the experience was (this is due 100% to the FWF) we saw good numbers of promising animals , and yes we saw too many animals ( I reckon 50% could have been culled) but from the data collected from our returns I’m sure the FwF is changing or modifying their culling ….and all for the good of the herd.
We are all hunters not photographers, I know many hunters take pictures but we are hunters so killing animals is what we do. Killing old mature Wapiti bulls after they have had 5-6 years of breading (7+ year olds) is what we go for even if for the other 355 days of the year we are weekend warriors or meat hunters…its just plain and simple the Wapiti herd is different.
I’d love to see a herd of Sika treated the same (not the whole Sika habitat but a portion of it) the same with Tahr, Fallow Samba etc.
These herds could be managed by hunters (called whatever you like, FWF is just an example)
I would not class myself as a trophy hunter but when it comes to Wapiti, I think we should all do our best to act like one , even if the only reason is to show the Government, Doc WARO etc that we are serious about managed herds, sure WARO and 1080 may be bigger problems than a few people shooting Wapiti in Jan but it is still a very bad look in the overall scheme of things.
In saying that, for me a Wapiti 40+ and 38+ wide is a trophy (that I may have a go at, can’t say before it happens) for others it may be 50 and yes I would like it to be old as well. The horse has bolted as far as Red blood is concerned but the FWF has made/saved this herd and I have to support them on that.
  
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