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Normal Topic Failure to identify (Read 1092 times)
Kiwikarl
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Failure to identify
Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:38am
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Pretty disgusted with the whole 1080 like most other hunters. But may I provide a slight distraction ....\
Just an update on my research into Failure to Identify Incidents. Initial "plain English" versions of last years research is now accessible via my PhD landing page www.theroar.org.nz . It is pretty low key stuff but provides a good foundation in understanding how things can cascade a fatal shooting. Hope this meets well with the admins of the forum. Please contact me so I know if I am not keeping up with the rules and regs of the forum.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #1 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 5:26pm
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Thanks for sharing this, Kiwikari. I look forward to following it, and will be interested in reading their final conclusions next year. Lots to be learnt, I'm sure. Atb
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #2 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:20pm
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Great work Kiwikarl. Working through the academic publication process is a frustrating business, but you are cracking it and getting peer recognition for your contributions, which makes them hard to ignore. That establishes the integrity of your work so I'm pleased to see you are sticking to it. Everyone who chooses to skulk around in the bushes owes you a debt of gratitude. Thank you.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:25am
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Keep up the good work.  This is taking things forward.
  
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Kiwikarl
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:52am
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Wow - thanks for the words of encouragement. Trying to find some answers based on science as well as what experienced hunters think and details of incidents. I would be particularly keen on hearing about anyone's clever strategies to reduce their chances of misidentifying their target. I check this forum regularly so this is the best way to let me know how you try to avoid an FTI beyond what is already out there in the Arms code or guidance information?
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:45pm
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good and important stuff kiwikarl. will follow with interest
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:17am
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Well that sure has taken some thinking and many many hours of just plain hard academic yakka.
Good on you for sharing your passion.
Great stuff.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 11:22am
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Hey there, this is my inaugural post but the topic interests me quite a lot.

Is there a general time of day to the incidents? I think of what I can 'zero hour' where twilight fades, then right at the point where brown and green become indistinguishable, everything goes blind.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #8 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:35am
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Dogfish858 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 11:22am:
Hey there, this is my inaugural post but the topic interests me quite a lot.

Is there a general time of day to the incidents? I think of what I can 'zero hour' where twilight fades, then right at the point where brown and green become indistinguishable, everything goes blind.


another thing to consider is incidents on day trips vs multiday trips that would be interesting to know. also weekend vs weekdays (id say nearly all would be weekend) and also the shooters successes on previous hunts eg. been unsuccessfull so getting more desperate/ itchy trigger finges. theres so many things to take into account and would be quite interesting to see if theres a clear pattern that makes us vulnerable to making mistakes
  
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Kiwikarl
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #9 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:19am
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I did some research last year to obtain reports of near misses or close calls when hunters almost committed an FTI.

We found afternoon to be the highest (slightly above mornings) -  MSC's Hunter's Tale report of incidents suggest mornings are worse.

When we did our trials at the SikaShow, obviously the guys participating did not have multiday trips - they were barely in 10 minutes. However some of them were physically shaking by the end of the simulation. Currently working through the data - which is proving to be a right headache. Will be planning more research next year for sure.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #10 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 10:36am
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Did you look at differences between public land open to all vs public land balloted to only one party vs private land? Just a guess but there seem less incidents on ballot blocks even though typical shootings I'm told are by members of the same party.
  

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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #11 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 2:00pm
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No unfortunately - we gave the respondents to the confidential survey as much free reign to narrate their story as we could to avoid leading them in any way. The problem with this is through the very nature of not asking too any questions, you loose the opportunity to get specific answers.

My main focus is on why an individual can make such an onerous mistake when they swear blind that all the saw was a deer. Currently I am focusing on arousal states prior to shooting the animal and how that level of arousal affects judgment, perception, target acquisition ... that sort of stuff.

On the subject of public versus ballotted land - I have hunted on both and I am not entirely sure which is safer - ballotted could lull you into a false sense of security whereas public have many more hunters potentially in one space at one time - thinking of places like Clements Mill here.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #12 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 2:25pm
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Kiwikarl wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 2:00pm:
On the subject of public versus ballotted land - I have hunted on both and I am not entirely sure which is safer - ballotted could lull you into a false sense of security whereas public have many more hunters potentially in one space at one time - thinking of places like Clements Mill here.


It would be relatively straight-forward to look at recorded incidents and build up a list of land type? It does in theory fit with your study of 'arousal state' - if on public land there was a feeling of competition with an unknown number of other hunters, whereas on a ballot block that is less. But both of us are just guessing without some stats.
  

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Kiwikarl
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #13 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 4:39pm
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The only way to really know if a sense of competition was a causal factor would be to interview every person who has committed and FTI and who would admit to that?

However, I like the idea and will explore this further.

One of the biggest challenges for this research has bee to work out what are the important elements to consider for future research - that is why we did that very complicated diagram that is in the plain english file I uploaded to my research webpage recently.  For sure it is not a simple case of eyesight, complacency, bloody stupidity, expectations or dare I say competition.
  
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Re: Failure to identify
Reply #14 - Dec 9th, 2017 at 7:54pm
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Great work so far. Too many people seem too focused on getting some meat to take home IMO. They must be really hungry. I look forward to what you find in the end, with real science.
  

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