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Normal Topic Brake not braking (Read 916 times)
Tom N
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Brake not braking
Dec 5th, 2017 at 9:29am
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Hey guys,

I'm after a bit of opinion on a new brake I've had fitted.

I have a new Tikka T3X in 300 Win Mag, because I was more worried about recoil than noise I went with a radial brake, fitted and supplied by Greystone Guns. I certainly don't have an issue with Stu's products or his workmanship, it's top notch in my opinion, I've used his services quite a bit now.

I went out to sight the rifle in last Saturday, knowing it's a magnum I expected a bit of a boot still, but what I got was totally unexpected. I didn't fire it without the brake on, so it's hard to make a comparison with the brake. I'm pretty disappointed with the result to be honest, it's near on impossible to follow your shot when the rifle jumps so much. I tried numerous shooting positions all while lying prone, loading bi pod, not loading bi pod, hand under rifle butt, hand on the fore end, didn't seem to help at all.

After speaking with a few other guys, they seem to think I should be seeing more of a recoil reduction, and not a bloody good bruise on my shoulder/collarbone. I feel like I've wasted $350 that could've been put towards something else that would work.

I did speak to Stu about my concerns, he was full of advice, but it all pointed back towards being a light rifle, prone position, and a big calibre.

Any guys out there got any suggestions that may help me out? I'm seriously considering going to a suppressor, as a few mates are running them on magnums and don't really have issues with recoil.

Cheers, team.
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #1 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 10:13am
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Try it with the brake off. Otherwise you have no baseline for a comparison.

A .300 Magnum is always going to kick hard, no matter what rifle, brake or suppressor.  And shooting prone you will get the full effect of recoil.

As you said yourself: "it all pointed back towards being a light rifle, prone position, and a big calibre."

The reality is, it's simple physics.
  
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #2 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:37am
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you certainly need to try it with the brake off for comparison, even then it is hard compare exactly as what you perceive may be a bit different to reality, perhaps someone taking a video of you from the same angle might help the comparison?
i have a Terminator T2 brake on a 300 blaser magnum which i'm guessing should boot a bit more than your 300WM and it is an absolute puppy to shoot with the brake on. as you say the main aim of a brake is to reduce recoil
  
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #3 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 4:20pm
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G'Day Fella's,

Tom N, M/Brakes are like suppressors, they all work (to some degree), it's just some work better than others.
And just like with suppressors, a lot of people don't actually understand what it is they are dealing with and what it is they are doing and or trying to achieve, let alone how to get there.

My M/Brake designs, are again different to others.
And they have either recoil reduction, muzzle jump reduction or both, on the same brake.

+1, to what was suggested above.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #4 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:25pm
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what thread is it fitted with Tom????
very sure someone on here will be able to lend you something else to screwon and try ..... suppressor too if it will fit.
another option is get someone else to have a crack....
what load/projectile weight-speed are you using????
  
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:50pm
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Terminator T2 or T3 only show in town. Loud though, I have tried a few radial brakes and they didn't perform as well. If you were up this way you could have a burn on my 375WSM braked and then unbraked Smiley
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:25pm
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A good brake should still tame a large proportion of the recoil of a light rifle. As others say, the T2 or 3 brakes go extremely well and have the benefit of side vents. My .300 WM with a brake is pretty mild, which has allowed me to shoot 20-30 shots on a range day without a sore shoulder. TBH, the longer, heavier barrel and McMillan stock help the brake a fair bit.

Shooting technique will need to be good to get the best effects, so I would suggest you don't use a bipod and do get a good grip on the fore end.

A moderator will be much quieter of course, but will never beat a well designed brake for recoil reduction, and will weigh much more too.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.
  
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Tom N
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:21pm
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Cheers Team,

I do understand that not firing it without the brake fitted doesn't give me a good base line, but when I hear stories of 7mm mag, and 300 WSM shooting like a puppy, I thought I should expect similar results.

I do also know that each brake will do different things, as will suppressors. The rifle shoots really well, .5 moa, I can handle two shots without flinching, but the old shoulder is getting sore by the third shot, which gets me flinching a touch.

I guess I'm not worried if it's only going to be a hunting rifle, but I'd still like to be able to do a few gong shoots, and smoke a few wallabies at long range.

Thanks for all of the input, I'll let you know guys know what, if any changes I make.

Cheers,
Tom.
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:40am
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Limbsaver or Pachmayer pad fitted?
If not, get one.
The new model Limbsaver changes the dynamics of recoil pleasantly.
  
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2017 at 9:26am
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The T2 or even T1 will work much better than any radial brake.
I fit & supply predominately the T2 on the Tikkas.
Here is a comparitive video with some radial brakes in it only on a 308 so it really doesn't show the difference well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqHCTZ5Wh9s
Here are the brakes on a 300 wsm compared to a bare light 243.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CI5hxvy_yE


  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #10 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:06am
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As mentioned above, try it without the brake for the first shot next time for comparison / base line. A light rifle in a big calibre will always kick harder

Second, if its bruising it would suggest that you are not getting full contact with your shoulder prior to firing. Contact shove does not normally bruise, where a brief acceleration prior to impact will. 

Finally, and it may sound odd, but there is no mention of ear protection. I presume that using a brake that you had ear protection on? Increased noise (from a brake or short barrel) can lead to an increase in the subconscious perception of recoil as the brain will associate the loud noise with the impact. Thus the brain may interpret a louder noise as an increase in noise AND recoil, when in fact it is the opposite.
  
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Tom N
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #11 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:13pm
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timandtalon wrote on Dec 10th, 2017 at 7:06am:
As mentioned above, try it without the brake for the first shot next time for comparison / base line. A light rifle in a big calibre will always kick harder

Second, if its bruising it would suggest that you are not getting full contact with your shoulder prior to firing. Contact shove does not normally bruise, where a brief acceleration prior to impact will.

Finally, and it may sound odd, but there is no mention of ear protection. I presume that using a brake that you had ear protection on? Increased noise (from a brake or short barrel) can lead to an increase in the subconscious perception of recoil as the brain will associate the loud noise with the impact. Thus the brain may interpret a louder noise as an increase in noise AND recoil, when in fact it is the opposite.


I will definitely be trying it without the brake for a comparison next time, I will also film it and slow it down to get a proper look to see what, if any difference there is.

I was also very conscious of how I was holding the rifle after the first few shots, making sure I had good contact with my shoulder, but still trying to be relaxed in my grip.

As for hearing protection, you'd have to be a bloody idiot to fire a braked rifle without hearing protection, I know a few guys that have fired theirs without protection in the heat of the moment, not a wise move at all.

The final thing I will say is, I really feel like this is not working as it should, I'm 6'2" and 105kg, and can take a bit of a hit, I have done enough shooting in my time to know that the recoil should be reduced more than what it has been. Yes I haven't fired that many magnums, but enough to know that a braked rifle should recoil less than a suppresses rifle, that's what the theory says anyway.

I guess if I want to push on with the brake I'll have to change away from a radial to a side ported brake.

Thanks for all of your suggestions team.
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #12 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 5:00pm
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I have a Parker-Hale Safari in 308 Norma magnum , which to all intents and purposes is a 300 WM with a Swedish accent .
Very light rifle , used to boot like two mules , none of my mates ever fired it more than once , and these are guys who shoot a lot of rifles.
Fitted a locally produced muzzle brake  - tamed the recoil to about 243 level. Its now pleasant to shoot recoil-wise. Unfortunately the muzzle-blast is pretty horrendous if you are standing beside the shooter but thats to be expected.
Maybe your preconceived expectation was unreasonable to begin with, and now , because you dont have a baseline to compare to , you are looking for someone to take the blame for that unreasonable expectation.
Any centrefire magnum is going to have major recoil, its just physics at work.
  

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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #13 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 7:57pm
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Im with you on this one Tom.

I had 1 of greystones radial muzzlebrakes fitted to my wsm. Like you I was somewhat dissapointed, seemed recoil was only marginally reduced.

Unbeleiveably Stu the owner of greystone guns actually told me you could use his radial muzzle brake without hearing protection!!!

  
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Re: Brake not braking
Reply #14 - Dec 12th, 2017 at 8:39pm
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Yeah as stated a decent side ported brake will piss all over a radial every time & Terminator brakes are the way to go, they just work so well.

Re - Greystone. I've had one of his rimfire suppressors & it was a very nice well made unit but in regards to his brakes, The only one I've seen was on my mate Rossco's 7rm & it was a farken loud terrible thing & was a very strange design, It had the ports on the muzzle end facing forward  Huh  Which kinda defeats the purpose of having a brake in the first place.


Tom could you post a pic of yours please
  

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