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Normal Topic How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups (Read 2970 times)
Kane h
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How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Oct 9th, 2017 at 5:36pm
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I often wonder how much freedom guys are giving pups and if im giving mine too much or too little.  Here's a day in life of my pup .out of box early morning off for walk / train maby a bit of heel work some stop drills turn ,sit and wait . And or a bit of fetch where I make her wait to be released to fetch. Then maby ten mins free in backyard then feed an in box while I work.
Mrs mite let her out couple times a day for half hour play with my daughter.not everyday but most.
I get home from work mite get ten mins running free then off for walk / train again for 30mins to one hour . Maby ten min to a hour free at home then feed and bed again . Out for shit etc couple times for 5 to ten min then in there for night and repeat.

This a average weekday sometimes she get more walking or less if say it's pissing down all day. Weekends a bit of everything including bushwalk/ hunt on long line or I will have her chilling with me in shed while doing things try not to leave her to own devices for too long or to be expected things start to be chewed etc .
My pup is just on 6months ( heading dog )

Cheers kaneo
  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #1 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 5:46am
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You'll need to feel out the situation which is a coy lightweight answer.

Often my bitch is fine fluffing about in the yard all day. Other times I'll confine her after 10 minutes.  What you want to avoid is self rewarding behavior like chasing birds etc. 

No right or wrong answers on the when and where. 

No amount of exercise will tax the brain. If you're like me huntung every fortnight you'll need to get creative.


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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #2 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 10:04am
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Hi Kane

I guess it probably depends on what you want in the end.  Pro hunting machine   or  flexible friend.   Smiley

I have Lab who is 10 mnths old.    She loves being with people, so is out and about for short periods during the day.  But has been in the kennel from Day 1.   My wife and I both work so she is in there all  day.   
I walk her in the morning, strict training on the long line. 15 mins 
When the kids come home from school, she gets out with them and has some family time.  And my wife will take her for a short walk.


I'll usually run her for about half an hour, when i get back from work, on a long line and the focus is on training, range, stops, etc.

Evening feed, crap run about in garden

Inside time  10-15mins  settle down and sit inside behave  or you are out  ..then night night.   Grin.

So... where does all this get me...    Dog is a bit stubborn,  walks off sits, has great range and turn on command,  good round the house ( took a while to get there).  Good on gun fire, 5m shots with 22.

I guess you need to have a measure of progress, and most things have been a bit slow for me.
If i base a comparison against  Print on the Deer dog blue print. who from the videos at 10 mnths  seems to do things very well, my dog would be behind.

But...   There are the added factors that i am unable to control. Wife kids etc, which really add to my dog having been "petted" from an early age.      

It can be a very hard balance to strike, and we wanted a dog that was  family orientated,  to what degree this has held her back im not experienced enough to know.
I cant really judge how big a factor, giving her more freedom has been.   

Guessing a little, she will end up indicating deer and we will have sucesses. But most likely at 15-16mnths.   Will I end up with a dog that has Print like qualities at 12-13 mnths, certainly not.

Some of this is definitely down to my deficiencies as a trainer, time spent, and those outside factors. 

   

  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 10:21am
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  At 10mnths, My dog still only has a short attention span.

  at  8-9mnth, she would  go a bit crazy, this has improved, but  I now  break up some of the training  sessions,  I found that 20mins hard out on the long line, she built up and up until, she finally exploded.. Wink   this is a bit tough when you are on walk and a fair way from home etc. 

So...  mid session i let her relax (  sit down or have a bit of free time )  a bit more if i can see some of those tensions starting to build.  It got to the point where constantly turning her as she broke the range 2-3m, just caused an explosion. 

Lesson to be learn for my dog was to  keep the sessions a bit shorter. 

moving on a bit, she has improved a lot in the last 2 mnths.  Her range is so good she only needs the occasional check.   

  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #4 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 10:33am
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Stagrinon wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 10:04am:
But...   There are the added factors that i am unable to control. Wife kids etc, which really add to my dog having been "petted" from an early age. 


My partner didn't appreciate the long line... Grin Grin Grin not even the stay boxed worked on her.

Dan
  

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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #5 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 7:43pm
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Stagrinon wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 10:21am:
  At 10mnths, My dog still only has a short attention span.

  at  8-9mnth, she would  go a bit crazy, this has improved, but  I now  break up some of the training  sessions,  I found that 20mins hard out on the long line, she built up and up until, she finally exploded.. Wink   this is a bit tough when you are on walk and a fair way from home etc. 

So...  mid session i let her relax (  sit down or have a bit of free time )  a bit more if i can see some of those tensions starting to build.  It got to the point where constantly turning her as she broke the range 2-3m, just caused an explosion. 

Lesson to be learn for my dog was to  keep the sessions a bit shorter. 

moving on a bit, she has improved a lot in the last 2 mnths.  Her range is so good she only needs the occasional check.   



Hey thanks for reply good to hear other experiences.  I want best of both worlds  Grin Grin pro hunting machine and a mate haha . At 6 months this week I'm finding she's going through a stage of going bit crazy when trying to train as of tomorrow I think I will try controlled fetch for ten mins or so before training as getting a bit out of control on the line all in all not to bad and I Beleave I need to improve on training my self .
Cheers Kane
  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #6 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 7:56pm
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At this stage iv taught her a stop (pretty good still needs work)   sit (pretty good will still think she can choose to walk off at times)   walk ahead (good as gold)   turn (dynamite all most too fast an keen)   up (all good)   down (all good) . Currently starting on a "get in" or heal if you like...  dog just dosnt seem to be grasping it . Iv got no doubt it's me more so than dog mite b looking to start again with that one
  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #7 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 5:47am
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Kane h wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 7:56pm:
dog just dosnt seem to be grasping it


Everyone is different but I didn't bother with a heal until later in the piece.  Personally I would button off the heal for now, keep things simple.

Turn and stop - you have the turn sorted so I'd focus on the stop. Hard to add much because I don't know exactly what pretty good looks like etc.  But once you have the stop dialed in, you can teach a good sit in five minutes.  Same mindset.

If the dog really isn't grasping I'd use the raised box or board.  The defined area makes it so clear to the dog where the boundary is.  1mm off is a correction, no grey area.


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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #8 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 8:24am
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My dogs are allowed out 99% of the time no chains or fences they just hang around the house (i live on a farm) never had any issues what so ever. They come to work with me and shift stock and then find a nice spot at home when they are not working. I do have kennels and runs for them where they sleep at night but the doors are open and they can come and go when they please. If i go out for a few days they are still outside free. My dogs have had plenty of deer shot over them and they hunt fantastically and  loyal and work for me to a Tee.

I'm not saying leave your dogs out like mine as it takes ages and strong trust, but find what works for you. Have a bit of a play and see what is best for you.
Like everything with dogs no ones the same. I've never used leads at all for training and training is very relaxed and both dogs will walk by my side all day, stedy to the shot and do every thing i want them to. But that's my dogs what works for me may not work for you. Try everything and see what works, i'm lucky as all my dogs have been really easy.
For hunting i wait till they have a solid heel so their ass is at my left knee then i take them hunting and shoot a few deer over them. Even if i can see the dead deer i ALWAYS (even now) make them sent to it. After 3 or 4 deer they were onto it.
Don't worry about what right or wrong worry about what works for you, mate.
Good luck.
  

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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #9 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 4:17pm
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Dont forget to make the training fun too. Its all in your manner. A good dog wants to please and will get a reward out of getting it right and you showing acknowledgement.
  

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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #10 - May 23rd, 2018 at 10:43pm
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My Tui is 10 now and slowing down. Going deaf and eyes are beginning to cloud. I have spent more time with her than with any person during those 10 years. She is reading me constantly and me her.

I spent a year training her. First 6 months fun games/control stuff not out hunting but at home and in hills. Building rapport and a language.   

Next six months reinforcing this stuff while Smiley shooting deer with her. Building rapport, trust and language. Took every chance I could to show her I had faith in her nose and to build her hunting skill set. Never let her deviate from the "thall shall not chase" and the "stay right in close to me" rule but gave her freedom and scope to lead me all over the place tracking deer.  This is how she learned what deer do and what is worth following and what is not. Its where she learned where they feed and where they bed down etc....

Taught her I didn't just want a nose that I led everywhere in the hope we'd get downwind of a deer for her to lead me to. I wanted her to use her initiative and track the deer down. She learned i valued her opinions and her knowledge.

Let her learn deer behaviour, habits and how to outwit them. Let her lead me. Let her know she was the one with the nose and I was her shooter Smiley

Have many silent conversations with her when out hunting. Joint decision making.
eg

Recently she took me up a matagouri and tussock river. No sign for 2 hours. Then she said, "deer have crossed the valley here last night. Its not real fresh but there isn't much around so I reckon we might as well follow this one up. What did you reckon? "

A flick of my head to communicate agreement and she tracked the 2 stags for 2 hours up the river. Up a side stream. Up to a saddle.  Then she sat down and said "they're in this basin. I can't see them. I can't smell them but i know my deer and i know how far  ahead they'd be. I know they've  feed all night and will be bedded down.  So sit and watch. If we walk into the basin they'll see us  and bolt." (Experience)

We sit and watch. The sun hits us. I have a snooze. Tui gives a whine. "Wake up!I can see them"  I glass across the basin where Tui is looking. Eventually I  see 2 stags too far away for my old 3006. They've stood up and are heading for the shade.

Tui gets in behind me and we slowly close to 250 yards using hebes and contour for cover. Tui lies beside me watching the stags as i line one up. Bang. It slides down the hill into the creek. Tui wags her tail and silently says "what about the other one?"

. I say "that's enough" she wags her tail and watches the stag run away. We head down to its mate. "Good girl Tui"

I trained Tui for a year and she trained me for 10 years. My posture . My gesture. My face. My look. My every nuance of expression is read by Tui. And vice versa.

Train a dog what you're after,to stay close and not to chase and it's useful.
Let the dog learn to track and understand the deer and it gets good. Real good.

Let the dog know you have faith in it and trust it; give it lots of work and it can become great.

It was all fun time! The training was fun for us both. Freedom was a walk with the boss but the communication was ever present. It was never hey dog go do what you want. We were always linked. It's the bond, the rapport, the communication that separates a useful deer dog from a great one.
Erics
  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #11 - May 24th, 2018 at 12:28pm
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Great read. Very nicely written.

Great rapport and affinity with the dog too.  Smiley
  

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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #12 - May 24th, 2018 at 1:19pm
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deerdogtrainer wrote on May 23rd, 2018 at 10:43pm:
I trained Tui for a year and she trained me for 10 years. My posture . My gesture. My face. My look. My every nuance of expression is read by Tui. And vice versa.



Well put.
  

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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #13 - May 27th, 2018 at 2:07am
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Thanks Deerdogtrainer that made my evening.
  
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Re: How much fun time / freedom is everyone giving there idercating pups
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2018 at 7:02am
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just read deerdogtrainers post, very cool. totally agree on the face signal body language thing, i can tell my bitch  a few different commands with a co*k of my head or couple of eye flicks,  when dogs communicate to each other there is most of time no sound,
  
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