Fishnhunt New Zealands main hunting and Fishing Forum. millions of posts on fishing and hunting, dogs, 4x4 vehicles, outdoors and much more Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic primer seating (Read 1272 times)
264Magic
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 5565
Location: Geraldine
Joined: Sep 7th, 2009
Gender: Male
primer seating
Oct 9th, 2017 at 7:45am
Print Post  
is there such as seating too deep and causing the primer to be crushed up in a way that the thing doesnt do its job,,the firing pin is good,,look forward to replys
  

It is much better to Hit the Animal in the right place, with a Rifle you can shoot well, then to hit it poorly with a Large Calibre..John Nosler
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Homer
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Life's Short, Shoot Fast!!!

Posts: 1388
Location: "Land of the Long Weekend"
Joined: Dec 16th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #1 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:29pm
Print Post  
G'Day Fella's,

264Magic, I have done some very basic tests on this.
I seated the primers so hard, that they were squashed flat in their primer pockets.
They still fired in my .308Win (rem 700) rifle but I didn't chrono them to see what if any effect this may have had on bullet velocity, group size, etc.

Like anything in the extreme, in my experience, it is best avoided.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer
  

Lick the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity Just Once and You Will Suck For Life!!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
264Magic
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 5565
Location: Geraldine
Joined: Sep 7th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #2 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:52pm
Print Post  
txks homer,,to think it did this three times in a row,,gotta shake your head
  

It is much better to Hit the Animal in the right place, with a Rifle you can shoot well, then to hit it poorly with a Large Calibre..John Nosler
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mathias
Full Member
***
Offline


A man can never have too
many guns!

Posts: 380
Location: Canterbury
Joined: Jul 18th, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #3 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 2:46pm
Print Post  
Are you sure the primers aren't contaminated and lost their fizz?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Homer
Forum Font
*****
Offline


Life's Short, Shoot Fast!!!

Posts: 1388
Location: "Land of the Long Weekend"
Joined: Dec 16th, 2010
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #4 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:01pm
Print Post  
264Magic wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:52pm:
txks homer,,to think it did this three times in a row,,gotta shake your head


Sorry for reminding you about this (with the above quote) 264 but mate, life is a learning curve.
Just put it down to experience, use it to remind yourself and try not to repeat it.

Man I could write a book, on my long list of Phuck Ups!
But Ive survived.......... so far, LOL!

HooRoo for now
Homer
  

Lick the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity Just Once and You Will Suck For Life!!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sako
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 3915
Location: napier
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #5 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:50pm
Print Post  
Have found Hornady pockets are very small and tight. That is why we junk them. We use a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer to get the primer pocket cleaned and proper depth.Homer is probably right you should calmly seat them so they get a firm seating but not slammed in.The wham bang thank you mam pace is recipe for disaster in reloading.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SF90
Donor Member
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 524
Joined: Jul 14th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #6 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 12:32pm
Print Post  
Don't know about modern primers but you could crush the priming compound in the old ones creating hangfires and the odd misfire - and I have done all that whilst being heavy handed in the bench press.
I use a little nutcracker handpriming tool - have for a while and have had no more problems using that.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
264Magic
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 5565
Location: Geraldine
Joined: Sep 7th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #7 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 8:07am
Print Post  
SF90 wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 12:32pm:
Don't know about modern primers but you could crush the priming compound in the old ones creating hangfires and the odd misfire - and I have done all that whilst being heavy handed in the bench press.
I use a little nutcracker handpriming tool - have for a while and have had no more problems using that.


thats what im using,,too heavy handed Grin
  

It is much better to Hit the Animal in the right place, with a Rifle you can shoot well, then to hit it poorly with a Large Calibre..John Nosler
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sako
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 3915
Location: napier
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #8 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 7:22pm
Print Post  
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
6.5x55bjai
Full Member
***
Online



Posts: 335
Location: Waikato
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #9 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:44pm
Print Post  
When I was experimenting with an RCBS desk mounted primer I seated maybe 5 primers way too deep. Visibly flattened on their faces and measured around 16 thou below flush. (My primer pockets are cut to 129.5 thou and the average CCI BR2 is 125 - 127 thou deep.) They all went bang but I didnít bother shooting the loads over a chronograph so donít know how inconsistent they were for velocity. I personally would not recommend crushing primers like that as I believe it would lead to inconsistent ignition. Certainly plenty of opinions on the good old net to support that.

Likewise seating them insufficiently deep enough risks the anvil not being in contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. Again, they will usually go bang (mmm maybe not always if combined with an excessively FLSized case) but some of the firing pin energy is wasted driving the primer down onto the bottom of the primer pocket so potentially inconsistent ignition again. An even worse situation is primers that are proud of the cartridge base.

I have dispensed with all my early day priming tools - RCBS desk mounted, RCBS Universal Jaw hand tool, Lee hand tool (went very early) and now use a 21st Century hand tool. It has superb feel and is not much slower than a hand tool with primer tray. I also tried K&Mís deluxe hand held which is designed to measure each individual primer and then seat to a correct depth for that primer. The K&M is miles too slow and I much prefer the 21st Century tool.

For my target loads I seat each primer with 1 Ĺ - 2 thou preload (large rifle) and around 1 Ė 1 Ĺ thou for small rifle.

I saw a mention of using Sinclairís primer pocket uniformers? I bought 2 of them at the same time and they both cut to different depths! Unfortunately I didnít initially pick up on that and when I measured a batch of brass pockets that I had uniformed they were 132.5 thou deep Ė miles too deep. When you can encounter some brands of LR primers down around 123 thou deep by the time you seat them in a 132.5 pocket the primer is mighty deep below face. It is possible the Sinclairís uniformer is manufactured to max SAAMI depth but whatever one was returned to them and the other has been relegated to being used to clean primer pockets. I now use a 21st Century adjustable uniformer which will do LR and SM.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Micky Duck
Donor Member
*****
Offline


You shot it..You pluck
it

Posts: 6563
Location: Geraldine South Canterbury
Joined: Dec 5th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #10 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 9:13pm
Print Post  
I thought of excessively resized as it was first fireing of .204 case necked up...but the primer strikes are something savage to behold.... 264 has the new lee hand primer with the square tray and nifty lifty thing so only one primer can get into priming race at a time...... I reloaded some cases myself with my older lee hand prime with the round tray....mine has had 25 odd years of use and feels much smoother...same case and primers and I cant get them to bottom out the same using older tool....buggered if I can work this one out Angry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sako
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 3915
Location: napier
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 10:58am
Print Post  
6.5x55bjai wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:44pm:
When I was experimenting with an RCBS desk mounted primer I seated maybe 5 primers way too deep. Visibly flattened on their faces and measured around 16 thou below flush. (My primer pockets are cut to 129.5 thou and the average CCI BR2 is 125 - 127 thou deep.) They all went bang but I didnít bother shooting the loads over a chronograph so donít know how inconsistent they were for velocity. I personally would not recommend crushing primers like that as I believe it would lead to inconsistent ignition. Certainly plenty of opinions on the good old net to support that.

Likewise seating them insufficiently deep enough risks the anvil not being in contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. Again, they will usually go bang (mmm maybe not always if combined with an excessively FLSized case) but some of the firing pin energy is wasted driving the primer down onto the bottom of the primer pocket so potentially inconsistent ignition again. An even worse situation is primers that are proud of the cartridge base.

I have dispensed with all my early day priming tools - RCBS desk mounted, RCBS Universal Jaw hand tool, Lee hand tool (went very early) and now use a 21st Century hand tool. It has superb feel and is not much slower than a hand tool with primer tray. I also tried K&Mís deluxe hand held which is designed to measure each individual primer and then seat to a correct depth for that primer. The K&M is miles too slow and I much prefer the 21st Century tool.

For my target loads I seat each primer with 1 Ĺ - 2 thou preload (large rifle) and around 1 Ė 1 Ĺ thou for small rifle.

I saw a mention of using Sinclairís primer pocket uniformers? I bought 2 of them at the same time and they both cut to different depths! Unfortunately I didnít initially pick up on that and when I measured a batch of brass pockets that I had uniformed they were 132.5 thou deep Ė miles too deep. When you can encounter some brands of LR primers down around 123 thou deep by the time you seat them in a 132.5 pocket the primer is mighty deep below face. It is possible the Sinclairís uniformer is manufactured to max SAAMI depth but whatever one was returned to them and the other has been relegated to being used to clean primer pockets. I now use a 21st Century adjustable uniformer which will do LR and SM.

The Sinclair cuts deeper then the K&M. Prefer the Sinclair because love that consistent cleaning and depth for seating. Buggered up our original one when using it for mil brass before got our Dillon swager. Really rate the Sinclair especially for 223.Magic with SSM cleaning.
Another view.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/01/primer-pocket-and-flash-hole-basics/
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
6.5x55bjai
Full Member
***
Online



Posts: 335
Location: Waikato
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 12:05pm
Print Post  
Have you measured the cut depths with a depth micrometer?

The article mentions cutting them to SAAMI.
Mmmm you need to be carefull and understand what that means.
SAAMI spec for LR pockets is 0.1250" to 0.1320"
SAAMI spec for LR primers is 0.1230" to 0.1360"

So, if you have a uniformer at the maximum end of SAAMI spec† (like my 2nd Sinclair @ 0.1320") and your primers are at the minimum SAAMI of 0.1230" (both situations within SAAMI specs/tick) you can end up with a primer seated at least 9 thou deep into the pocket. Then add in a bit of exuberance when squeezing the primer tool handle/cranking the press and.......


Have the K&M uniformers as well. They live unloved in the back of my cupboard. I love K&M gear but dislike their PP uniformers. The redeeming feature with them is they are adjustable for depth whilst the Sinclair is not. The K&M I find (both SR and LR) bind on the primer pocket walls and are hard to use. Somewhere he states his dimensions are to SAAMI which may be so but I have found they measure a tad wider than Sinclairs and 21st Century.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sako
Forum Font
*****
Offline


I Love The FishNhunt Forum

Posts: 3915
Location: napier
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #13 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 1:23pm
Print Post  
Have done about 17k of 223 last count with out a misfire. Think have got it sussed. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
6.5x55bjai
Full Member
***
Online



Posts: 335
Location: Waikato
Joined: Jun 3rd, 2015
Gender: Male
Re: primer seating
Reply #14 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 1:37pm
Print Post  
sako wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 1:23pm:
Have done about 17k of 223 last count with out a misfire. Think have got it sussed. Wink

Good on yer mate, close to my total - not all for myself of course. It's a boring (excuse the pun) job† Wink  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 

FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 » Powered by YaBB 2.6.11!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2017. All Rights Reserved.
Site Design By Alan Simmons - PRism and all rights are reserved from 1995 and onwards