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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) Molesworth 1080 (Read 12470 times)
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #225 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:34am
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madfish 71 Your wasting yi time with this lot,,they will even stoop ti childish little stories ti make some anti look like a complete idiot.
They work in packs  Grin, think they are some special mouth piece for other pro 1080 dicks and in some cases are  Roll Eyes
back off fi now ,,let them slip back into the muddy pool they come from eh.oh and have a nice day madfish 71.
  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #226 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:31am
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Jeez, itís like telling a kid that Santa isnít real 🎅🙂

Greg Duley said it well in his latest editorial:

ď[W]ith ex Forest & Bird staffer Eugenie Sage as Minister of Conservation now more than ever hunters need to be seen as responsible and public spirited people and prove they care about more than just their own selfish needs.Ē

Hunters, generally, need to lift our credibility with the general public.
  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #227 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 12:56pm
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Oscar wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 11:31am:
Jeez, itís like telling a kid that Santa isnít real 🎅🙂

Greg Duley said it well in his latest editorial:

ď[W]ith ex Forest & Bird staffer Eugenie Sage as Minister of Conservation now more than ever hunters need to be seen as responsible and public spirited people and prove they care about more than just their own selfish needs.Ē

Hunters, generally, need to lift our credibility with the general public.



Hunters have shot both their feet off, Think its too late for that , Oscar.
silly thing is, they don't realize it, Huh
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #228 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 4:04pm
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I think the problem with many hunters  is that we only see these issues like 1080 through a binary lens. Good or evil. Right or wrong. Only thinking in absolutes.

The reality is that its more like deciding about whether its best breathing in or best breathing out.  There are distinct merits to both. But many of us would still argue subjectively for one or the other.

Our preference for polarising arguments rather than balanced or objective ones means that the likely-hood of us being seriously listened to is greatly diminished.
  

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.......
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #229 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:42pm
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Sadly I can see the years of hunting on doc land are numbered. The screws are getting wound tighter and tighter. Unfortunately the government view deer as a pest as aposed to a recreational resource like fish. I believe their†ultimate goal is to have all introduced wild game animals completely eradicated from the country (on DOC land) and at the end of the day negotiations or not, they will do what they want. This is just my opinion.† Cry† Sorry. . . . Rant over.
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #230 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:32pm
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Yep it aint about tb at all in mop
  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #231 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:34pm
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BC wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 4:04pm:
I think the problem with many hunters† is that we only see these issues like 1080 through a binary lens. Good or evil. Right or wrong. Only thinking in absolutes.

The reality is that its more like deciding about whether its best breathing in or best breathing out.† There are distinct merits to both. But many of us would still argue subjectively for one or the other.

Our preference for polarising arguments rather than balanced or objective ones means that the likely-hood of us being seriously listened to is greatly diminished.


Is this true for the other side of the fence BC?
  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #232 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:16pm
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Allizdog wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:42pm:
Sadly I can see the years of hunting on doc land are numbered. The screws are getting wound tighter and tighter. Unfortunately the government view deer as a pest as aposed to a recreational resource like fish. I believe their†ultimate goal is to have all introduced wild game animals completely eradicated from the country (on DOC land) and at the end of the day negotiations or not, they will do what they want. This is just my opinion.† Cry† Sorry. . . . Rant over.


Can understand why you might think that, Alizdog
But the reality is, over the last few years, theres been a move within DOC to have better regard to hunting.
This was probably mainly due to the influence of peter Dunne. it wasn't only the Game Council that done initiated.
I have to wonder why he ever bothered, hunters support for him at the Polls wasn't evident
Theres been a lot of work between DOC/hunters going on to get actual "management" of game. the wapiti herd is the most obvious, but not the only example
Ruahines are developing a plan for sustainable management of deer, plus quite a few other examples.
control of possums and predators is allways going to beat recreational hunting. That's something hunters have to accept. probably 99 percent of NZers agree with this.
Hunters  best option is to get mitigation of the effects ie either ground control or deer relent.
(I gather last whitetail 1080 monitoring resulted in 1 in 10 whitetail dying)

What hunters should be worried about, is the effects of WARO on hunting, especially if venison prices continue to rise. (one of our members here recently did a trip in the Ruahines only  found a multitudes of gut bags, and no live deer.
WARo take out the deer hunters are usually after (stags) from the places preferred by deer (same places rec hunters go)
The impact on hunting is generally more than 1080 IMO

The west coast has been hammered, with plenty of really big stags being taken out as well.

DOC(and its predecessor the NZFS) have favoured WARo over rec hunting ever since WARo began, and the default rule is, Open everything to WARO, unless the land is an RHA or hunters have negotiated WARo exclusions during management plan creation.

peter Dunne is gone, and its going to be a lot harder to get a sympathetic member of parliament now. As said in previous posts, hunters need to appear as far more credible, and not just selfish ranting anti government conspiracy theorists.

Theres some on here will just say 'more pro BS", but its that attitude that's got hunters where they are today. No where.

Theres plenty of whinging about NZDA, but the fact is, government listen to organized (and credible) groups. Join a club if you want change.
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #233 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:28pm
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Agree TH look at what the Sika Foundation has achieved in a short time.  Although they don't like 1080 they have successfully negotiated with DOC and TB free to using repellent in all the Kaimanawa and Kaweka drops.  They also have TB Free/Ospri listening to them now to try and mitigate  the deer by-kill.  Sure repellent doesn't stop all deer taking the bait, as the subsequent ground survey's show deer that have been kill are normally juvenile deer.
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #234 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:39pm
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All the sika foundation have done is collect money, deer repellant is a crock of crap to put it nicely.
  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #235 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:11pm
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Sika 9 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:39pm:
deer repellant is a crock of crap to put it nicely. 


The evidence shows otherwise. Just not perfect. For eg: Sika Deer Repellent Trials


Quote:
WHAT DOES THE STUDY SHOW?

The conclusion is that deer repellent 1080 bait did not have a major impact on the population size of sika deer in the Paemahi area. Although a number of deer were killed, the camera sightings show that mortality had little impact on the population. Statistically, there is little chance that sighting rate would have stayed high if more than 20 per cent of deer were killed.

Although more detailed analyses will be conducted for the final report, the interim estimates suggest that losses are likely to be replaced by natural reproductive increases within the next year.

The initial results from this trial are consistent with previous trials on red and fallow deer, which showed low incidental by-kill when deer repellent 1080 bait is used. Although deer repellent significantly increases the cost of a 1080 operation, it minimizes the chance of a major reduction in the number of deer available to hunters.

  

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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #236 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:43pm
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:16pm:
Allizdog wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:42pm:
Sadly I can see the years of hunting on doc land are numbered. The screws are getting wound tighter and tighter. Unfortunately the government view deer as a pest as aposed to a recreational resource like fish. I believe their†ultimate goal is to have all introduced wild game animals completely eradicated from the country (on DOC land) and at the end of the day negotiations or not, they will do what they want. This is just my opinion.† Cry† Sorry. . . . Rant over.


Can understand why you might think that, Alizdog
But the reality is, over the last few years, theres been a move within DOC to have better regard to hunting.
This was probably mainly due to the influence of peter Dunne. it wasn't only the Game Council that done initiated.
I have to wonder why he ever bothered, hunters support for him at the Polls wasn't evident
Theres been a lot of work between DOC/hunters going on to get actual "management" of game. the wapiti herd is the most obvious, but not the only example
Ruahines are developing a plan for sustainable management of deer, plus quite a few other examples.
control of possums and predators is allways going to beat recreational hunting. That's something hunters have to accept. probably 99 percent of NZers agree with this.
Hunters† best option is to get mitigation of the effects ie either ground control or deer relent.
(I gather last whitetail 1080 monitoring resulted in 1 in 10 whitetail dying)

What hunters should be worried about, is the effects of WARO on hunting, especially if venison prices continue to rise. (one of our members here recently did a trip in the Ruahines only† found a multitudes of gut bags, and no live deer.
WARo take out the deer hunters are usually after (stags) from the places preferred by deer (same places rec hunters go)
The impact on hunting is generally more than 1080 IMO

The west coast has been hammered, with plenty of really big stags being taken out as well.

DOC(and its predecessor the NZFS) have favoured WARo over rec hunting ever since WARo began, and the default rule is, Open everything to WARO, unless the land is an RHA or hunters have negotiated WARo exclusions during management plan creation.

peter Dunne is gone, and its going to be a lot harder to get a sympathetic member of parliament now. As said in previous posts, hunters need to appear as far more credible, and not just selfish ranting anti government conspiracy theorists.

Theres some on here will just say 'more pro BS", but its that attitude that's got hunters where they are today. No where.

Theres plenty of whinging about NZDA, but the fact is, government listen to organized (and credible) groups. Join a club if you want change.

The Government doesnt listen to many organized groups and at the moment they playing the NZDA to any tune they wish.
As with WARO, enlighten me if im wrong but are they allowed to actually take deer from a 1080 area ?
I thought if the areas been 1080 you not allowed to sell any game meat obverseas etc and as shit loads of areas getting the bomb of green rain isnt WARO reducing to no concern to the hunter compared from 1080?
I could well be wrong so someone canfill in the answers i
f im off track
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #237 - Dec 9th, 2017 at 7:12am
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Oscar wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Sika 9 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:39pm:
deer repellant is a crock of crap to put it nicely.†


The evidence shows otherwise. Just not perfect. For eg: Sika Deer Repellent Trials


Quote:
WHAT DOES THE STUDY SHOW?

The conclusion is that deer repellent 1080 bait did not have a major impact on the population size of sika deer in the Paemahi area. Although a number of deer were killed, the camera sightings show that mortality had little impact on the population. Statistically, there is little chance that sighting rate would have stayed high if more than 20 per cent of deer were killed.

Although more detailed analyses will be conducted for the final report, the interim estimates suggest that losses are likely to be replaced by natural reproductive increases within the next year.

The initial results from this trial are consistent with previous trials on red and fallow deer, which showed low incidental by-kill when deer repellent 1080 bait is used. Although deer repellent significantly increases the cost of a 1080 operation, it minimizes the chance of a major reduction in the number of deer available to hunters.



The thing to look at is who is funding the research? Does the entity funding the research have any interest in results that show one particular side of any argument?

A good saying is, "Follow the Money". Do your own research. Ask the following question: Do any of the researchers doing the research, paid for by 1080 industry funding, have any personal financial interest in supporting the current wild animal control and 1080 status quo?

There has been a call for all the monitoring of aerial 1080 areas to be put in the hands of an entity that is fully independent from and not reliant on funding from the 1080 industry. The answer to this call has been NO.

AHB/TBFree/OSPRI (OSPRI) has spent millions of dollars on research, some of which shows that 1080 has not killed the numbers of possums claimed. The research that showed negative results for 1080 was suppressed and only the research, some of it written with manipulated and false data, that showed positive results were released for public consumption.

Why would we trust OSPRI funded research when OSPRI has proved it cannot be trusted to release research that runs counter to OSPRI's financial interests?

Recently, DOC finally released substantial rat monitoring raw data after an OIA request saga lasting many years. The initial analysis is showing that 1080 is not killing the numbers of rats claimed, in exactly the same way as the raw possum data, that was finally extracted after years of battling through the OIA process, showed that 1080 had not killed the numbers of possums claimed.

The rat analysis will be released when all the analysis has been done and there is a whole lot of analysis to do.

Contract trappers will be using this information to bring DOC back to the negotiating table to allow aerial 1080 contractors to be exposed to open, fair and transparently tendered competition from other wild animal control methods. One of the points for discussion, already put on the table, is the creation of a separate entity to do the monitoring with this new entity not being funded by the 1080 industry or being able to be influenced by the 1080 industry.
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #238 - Dec 9th, 2017 at 7:30am
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Marty Foote wrote on Dec 9th, 2017 at 7:12am:
Oscar wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Sika 9 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 8:39pm:
deer repellant is a crock of crap to put it nicely.†


The evidence shows otherwise. Just not perfect. For eg: Sika Deer Repellent Trials


Quote:
WHAT DOES THE STUDY SHOW?

The conclusion is that deer repellent 1080 bait did not have a major impact on the population size of sika deer in the Paemahi area. Although a number of deer were killed, the camera sightings show that mortality had little impact on the population. Statistically, there is little chance that sighting rate would have stayed high if more than 20 per cent of deer were killed.

Although more detailed analyses will be conducted for the final report, the interim estimates suggest that losses are likely to be replaced by natural reproductive increases within the next year.

The initial results from this trial are consistent with previous trials on red and fallow deer, which showed low incidental by-kill when deer repellent 1080 bait is used. Although deer repellent significantly increases the cost of a 1080 operation, it minimizes the chance of a major reduction in the number of deer available to hunters.



The thing to look at is who is funding the research? Does the entity funding the research have any interest in results that show one particular side of any argument?

A good saying is, "Follow the Money". Do your own research. Ask the following question: Do any of the researchers doing the research, paid for by 1080 industry funding, have any personal financial interest in supporting the current wild animal control and 1080 status quo?

There has been a call for all the monitoring of aerial 1080 areas to be put in the hands of an entity that is fully independent from and not reliant on funding from the 1080 industry. The answer to this call has been NO.

AHB/TBFree/OSPRI (OSPRI) has spent millions of dollars on research, some of which shows that 1080 has not killed the numbers of possums claimed. The research that showed negative results for 1080 was suppressed and only the research, some of it written with manipulated and false data, that showed positive results were released for public consumption.

Why would we trust OSPRI funded research when OSPRI has proved it cannot be trusted to release research that runs counter to OSPRI's financial interests?

Recently, DOC finally released substantial rat monitoring raw data after an OIA request saga lasting many years. The initial analysis is showing that 1080 is not killing the numbers of rats claimed, in exactly the same way as the raw possum data, that was finally extracted after years of battling through the OIA process, showed that 1080 had not killed the numbers of possums claimed.

The rat analysis will be released when all the analysis has been done and there is a whole lot of analysis to do.

Contract trappers will be using this information to bring DOC back to the negotiating table to allow aerial 1080 contractors to be exposed to open, fair and transparently tendered competition from other wild animal control methods. One of the points for discussion, already put on the table, is the creation of a separate entity to do the monitoring with this new entity not being funded by the 1080 industry or being able to be influenced by the 1080 industry.

That is well written thanks Marty.
The fact that they are not releasing there rat analysis data to me shows corruption at a very high level. I can't understand why this information isn't freely available so everyone can use it to get the best results for New Zealand pest management.
  
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Re: Molesworth 1080
Reply #239 - Dec 9th, 2017 at 7:30am
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Quote:
The thing to look at is who is funding the research? Does the entity funding the research have any interest in results that show one particular side of any argument?

A good saying is, "Follow the Money". Do your own research. Ask the following question: Do any of the researchers doing the research, paid for by 1080 industry funding, have any personal financial interest in supporting the current wild animal control and 1080 status quo?

There are plenty of anecdotal reports from recreational hunters that support those findings. Enough for rec hunters to be demanding deer repellent to be used in places they hunt.

Your beating the same drum yet again marty foote. Why would researchers produce fake research about the effectiveness or otherwise of deer repellent. its good news for Ospri/DOC, to be able to show theyre mitigating the effects of 1080 on hunters.

  
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