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Normal Topic Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear (Read 3973 times)
Kane h
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Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Jun 18th, 2017 at 2:41pm
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Anyboby using a correction collar without the tracking gear? Looking for one myself don't need tracking so why pay for it . Seems to b heaps collars on trade me once ya start looking most are non shock type
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 4:42pm
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Need to be real careful with using one on a dog mate.
Used by a learner trainer u can really destroyed yr dogs hunting drive.
I have been that guy with my first attempt at training a deer dog.
U don't need it.
Get your basic controls in place before u even take yr dog hunting and life is so much easier.
My second dog is way better without it.
  

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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #2 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 6:59pm
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wise words.

A lot can go pear shaped real quick. They have their uses but only in the hands of someone who really understands and can apply good dog training principles,

which then begs the question, if you do understand how a dog learns and can apply that understanding to training a dog.. what do you need a shock collar for..  Cheesy

I used one for a couple of days too and on day three the dog was behaving in a very out of character manner. Timid and confused would descrbe her manner. Since then its gathered dust at the back of a cubord.  Smiley
  

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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #3 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:06pm
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Ive hated the darn things for years.........
but now have seen the positive side of them.....
the models that will beep or buzz then you have option to zap seen to be a step in right direction.
if you have a dog who "turns off ears" a beep or 3 SHOULD turn them back on ONCE dog realises if they dont it gets worse...same theory as giving whistle before the whip on a horse........ that backfires if you try to work your dogs while said horse is underneath ya bum Grin Grin
wandering around the bush today with my bitch,when she got out past our 15yard range I would give her a quiet whistle to bring her back......... twice she hit fresh scent and it needed a slightly louder whistle to stop her till I caught up.....having option of beep/buzz to attract her attention would have been nice...no way in hell could you zap this bitch she would turn herself inside out and pee all over the show as very timid.
sportdog I believe is the brand the shepherds use. try the likes of farmlands.
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #4 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 10:37pm
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Thanks I would like to have it there for worst case stuff say chase a deer/possum or another dog or say if can't stop kennal barking sumthing worst case not going to try train a dog by shocking the shit out of it . Having a buzzer as well would be good hopefully thats all you have to use . Ive seen shock work 1st hand one small buz when chasing possums dosnt want a bar of them to this day
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:47am
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I would be hesitant to use one for kennel barking. Poor dog will have no idea what's going on.

What i got told:  the guys who need them shouldn't use them, they guys that can use them don't need one. Always an exception to the rule.

A friend had a head dog with sides etc.  Use a collar successfully until one day the dog got a zap from the fence took him months to get the thing going right again.


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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:40am
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i would get the E collar question out of your head first off.
if you are only testing the waters for a future pup or have already picked one up then do your self a favor and don't expect anything but problems with a collar.
they require as much training to use as training a dog in the first place.
  

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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:07pm
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I have a dogtra one about 7 years old with zero problems.
I use it periodically when my dogs get a bit headstrong.
It's very seldom I have to use the shock function.
One of my dogs pulls his head in as soon as I put it on him.
The other one sometimes needs a vibrate.
About once a year they get slack and need a quick zap.
Don't over do it or you risk the dog turning sour.

  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #8 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 6:01pm
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dogtra,vibration and shock,good back up too
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 7:44pm
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zamkiwi wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
Need to be real careful with using one on a dog mate.
Used by a learner trainer u can really destroyed yr dogs hunting drive.
I have been that guy with my first attempt at training a deer dog.
U don't need it.
Get your basic controls in place before u even take yr dog hunting and life is so much easier.
My second dog is way better without it.

A mate of mine in the Waikato saw a cocky ill treating a farm dog with an e collar. Stopped his ute. Jumped the fence . Walked over and smacked the dude. Jumped back in ute and took off.Word is the cocky was told by others not to pursue a complaint because he might get a repeat dose.
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 8:59pm
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sako wrote on Jun 20th, 2017 at 7:44pm:
zamkiwi wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 4:42pm:
Need to be real careful with using one on a dog mate.
Used by a learner trainer u can really destroyed yr dogs hunting drive.
I have been that guy with my first attempt at training a deer dog.
U don't need it.
Get your basic controls in place before u even take yr dog hunting and life is so much easier.
My second dog is way better without it.

A mate of mine in the Waikato saw a cocky ill treating a farm dog with an e collar. Stopped his ute. Jumped the fence . Walked over and smacked the dude. Jumped back in ute and took off.Word is the cocky was told by others not to pursue a complaint because he might get a repeat dose.

I wish he'd put the collar on the cocky and let rip. That would be a sight to behold 😂
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 9:23pm
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I have been know to cause a ripple or three Kiss on forum from the states by suggesting the owner puts the collar on his own leg if he feels need to use it and feel free to turn it up if not getting results Grin Grin
they are pretty keen on the use of them over that part of the world Undecided
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2017 at 7:55am
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They are very useful on pig dogs at times as they work at distance. I get the basic commands right then give a young dog a few pigs by walking them on a lead (includes a NO to teach verbal commands) to teach them target species then when they start hunting out by themselves I run an E collar on them as insurance. A zap at distance if they zero in on a goat the first time usually solves the issue for good. I always set them up on goats with a verbal reprimand to start with. In my mind a lot better than a slapping. If a young dog goes a goat it gets a MEASURED zap before it even hits the goat. I press the trigger when the dog decides to have it, not after it grabs it. You stay the good guy and the goats are the bad guys. My E collars are worn out from being worn but are hardly ever used. They are not a substitute for good training. Dogs that are worked in close should not need them IMO. Cheers  Wink
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #13 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 8:27am
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Another example of how an e collar can be useful is that my main goes through phases of trail barking.
Giving a couple of seconds on the vibrate function when he does it seems to calm him down so he shuts up for rest of day.
  
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Re: Correction/ shock collars other than garmin tracking gear
Reply #14 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:19pm
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Only collar to buy is the Garmin 550 pro. Everything else is rubbish and won’t last the distance.

Every comment so far has been based on aversion training only. You need to be clear in your goals from the outset? Are you just going to use it for aversion, example dog chases sheep and gets burned for it. Kiwi aversion training is the same thing.
Or do you want to learn how to train a dog properly with the collar? Correct e collar use is the most humane way you can train a dog. It is also the quickest and most effective It is no different to the use of any other form of pressure with the main emphasis in this type of training system being teaching the dog how to understand and turn any pressure off.
Before you go embarking on this journey you need to have your handling/training  skills finely honed. Your ability to teach, timing, understanding the dogs intent, knowing when to back off and simplify, knowing when to push forward are all key skills you will need. Understanding when a dog has made a mistake and when it has deliberately disobeyed are also really important.
If you don’t have these key skills sets then you need to get that sorted first.

No one has yet talked about properly e collar conditioning the dog. This is a 2-3 week lesson where the dog is taught to understand the pressure the collar produces and how to appropriately respond to that pressure. It is completed using known commands and pressure that the dog already understands, example choke chain. It is a complex lesson that needs tuition and guidance the first couple of times it is taught.

The training stimulation levels I use on my dogs I can use on myself on my own neck. The idea that the dog is being shocked are incorrect.

The last thing I would say is you will need to get the old human emotion of anger/frustration under control first. If you get angry or frustrated during training now then that needs to be sorted first before you strap an e collar on a dog.


  

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