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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Lead shot ban (Read 9849 times)
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Lead shot ban
Jun 7th, 2017 at 7:41pm
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Seems lead shot ban for waterfowling coming in from next year then compulsary by 2021. Exemption for 410.Might be time to buy a cheap 20 gauge soon.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 8:03pm
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Only indirectly related, but opened up a duck gizzard for the first time in years last Saturday. Had a new duck shooter with me. Lo and behold, found a pellet - and it was LEAD
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #2 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 4:02pm
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TTTTTTTTTTT SIR P
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:50am
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To ban lead in 20ga and 16ga fair enough but to include 28ga  is going to kill the use of anyone using a 28ga. I think theres hardly anyone using 28ga on game birds anyway ive never seen a hunter with one.There might be alot of .410 getting sold in the next 4 years if kids can knock down ducks with them a adult with a .410 should have no trouble. Smiley
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 5:33pm
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hauraki hunter wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:50am:
To ban lead in 20ga and 16ga fair enough but to include 28ga  is going to kill the use of anyone using a 28ga. I think theres hardly anyone using 28ga on game birds anyway ive never seen a hunter with one.There might be alot of .410 getting sold in the next 4 years if kids can knock down ducks with them a adult with a .410 should have no trouble. Smiley



yes big sales coming up in the south island yes 28 should have been included ,

i think its going to be

1/3rd  back to 12g
1/6th toying  on 410, 
1/3rd keeping to 20 bore, Smiley Wink Kiss
1/6th  bent on ether way

so the gun shops are winning ether way things go

i also think, lots of thinking about it this  morning as my  day of lol ,

lots of winged birds as people play with the 410 and steel out of 20 bores ,

ok some really good shooters are going to be able to get ok results out of the 410 but they will be the good shots anyway

but the others that will be playing with it are going to have a lot of lost birds , same goes for the steel as par normal


  as a 28 bore  shooter its not going to bother me as ducks are a small part of my hunting  and the 28 is totally totally great on pheasants , and i just hope that the competition in ammo in this country to the whos whys and where fours of this move still bring in there excellent priced and quietly ammo for we who shoot the magnificent 28 bore


  Wink as a 20 gauge shooter i dont shoot that much duck  over water so not really a biggy it may cost me 50 or 75 bucks on new ammo

i have worked out the whos whys and where fors on it  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

as i say that in the top of this page good luck all yea southlanders as i think theirs big sales in 410s heading your ways  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

you have certainly loss a great opportunity of bring the 28 bore to  its proper place

  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:50pm
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I'm waiting for the 20 gauge sales...looking at a sbs 20
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:22pm
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Hope lead is banned, nothing wrong with steel, pattern different loads in different chokes and you may be surprised. Takes up a bit of time but is worth it. Have found a lot of steel loads pattern really badly but once a good one is found it is very much equal to a good lead pattern. Best loads for me have mostly been Falcon.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #7 - Jun 10th, 2017 at 8:35am
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puddleduk wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:22pm:
Hope lead is banned, nothing wrong with steel, pattern different loads in different chokes and you may be surprised. Takes up a bit of time but is worth it. Have found a lot of steel loads pattern really badly but once a good one is found it is very much equal to a good lead pattern. Best loads for me have mostly been Falcon.


yes , i dont have a problem with the concept, but  lots of mainly southerners do and a rear opportunity with increasing the  numbers of 28 bores has been lost , which is  a far better gauge than 410 could passably ever be, WELL EVER WILL BE   ,  
and i believe this was done with out consideration or thought,
considering it all follows those that follow the   american flag ???/on the subject ,

and has been driven by a following of one whom mostly shoots vast amounts of   lead over paddocks and goes over water just a few  times for the photo shoots per season,  but thats politics  Sad

and of course with those that follow that said flags ways  i do have slight ??? s about how much of this is being  driven by those in the  industry  whom i question  mit not have the majority of 28 bore ammunition supply's in nz  Huh

just how much has a certain groups influence in the sport is today
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2017 at 8:38am
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QUACKERS wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
I'm waiting for the 20 gauge sales...looking at a sbs 20



yes im after a ok semi  20 bore if any one wants to sub me one to prove a point, i  will give u  $1, well how about $12, mainly for geese ,

or a pump at this stage   Smiley
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 12:51pm
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WHAT 3 DAYS AND NO BITES  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:04pm
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Our duck season now finished willy so the south island boys must be out with the 20s. Using  up there ammo
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:45pm
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Find it a bit undemocratic that members of fish and game council  (that are elected) are making such decisions on behalf of the people that pay for the licenses i.e. all shooters.without a referendum etc they must be in bed with the politicians
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #12 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:58am
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hunta223rem wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:45pm:
Find it a bit undemocratic that members of fish and game council  (that are elected) are making such decisions on behalf of the people that pay for the licenses i.e. all shooters.without a referendum etc they must be in bed with the politicians


Eh ? 
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #13 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 8:04am
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Cheesy
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #14 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 3:51pm
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hunta223rem wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:45pm:
Find it a bit undemocratic that members of fish and game council  (that are elected) are making such decisions on behalf of the people that pay for the licenses i.e. all shooters.without a referendum etc they must be in bed with the politicians



yeah I think you might find that the conservation minister may have pushed this one there pal, the government wanted a immediate ban , you may well also find that our elected members worked very well for us gaining us several years to change over.
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #15 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:59pm
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the decision was not the waikato fish and game council it was done by the nz council from magie barry we were advised bout it Angry Angry Angry
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #16 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 11:15am
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Ide say it will be a hard call for ammo supplyers to know what steel loads to stock for sub gauges because alot of sub gauge users will be going back to 12ga.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #17 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 2:48pm
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One of the main causes of the introduction of  this ban is the number of shooters who swung to 20ga to get around the problem of suspected poor performance of steel shot .

I haven't been able to find a copy of the proposed changes so
I'm not sure but, I believe the 410 exemption will be for kids only .

Rio makes a full range of Bisthmus shot shells , and Hevi shot make a full range of tungsten based shells , it is just a matter of affording it  Sad
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #18 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 3:03pm
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HUNTEE wrote on Jun 12th, 2017 at 7:59pm:
the decision was not the waikato fish and game council it was done by the nz council from magie barry we were advised bout it Angry Angry Angry


Don't sweat it. 95% of game bird hunters and trout anglers have no idea how F&G works.  Sad
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #19 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 3:51pm
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( [/quote]

Don't sweat it. 95% of game bird hunters and trout anglers have no idea how F&G works.  Sad [/quote]

That reminds me , at the time of the original lead shot ban discussions , the banning of lead in fresh water fishing, lead lines , lures and downriggers etc , was also being discussed  , did that ever come about or is the Fishing lobby too strong ?
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #20 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:03pm
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Flintlock wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 2:48pm:
One of the main causes of the introduction of  this ban is the number of shooters who swung to 20ga to get around the problem of suspected poor performance of steel shot .

I haven't been able to find a copy of the proposed changes so
I'm not sure but, I believe the 410 exemption will be for kids only .

Rio makes a full range of Bisthmus shot shells , and Hevi shot make a full range of tungsten based shells , it is just a matter of affording it  Sad

I don't see how the .410 exemption could only be for kids....as that would surely be age discrimination.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #21 - Jun 13th, 2017 at 10:11pm
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GDMP wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
Flintlock wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 2:48pm:
One of the main causes of the introduction of  this ban is the number of shooters who swung to 20ga to get around the problem of suspected poor performance of steel shot .

I haven't been able to find a copy of the proposed changes so
I'm not sure but, I believe the 410 exemption will be for kids only .

Rio makes a full range of Bisthmus shot shells , and Hevi shot make a full range of tungsten based shells , it is just a matter of affording it  Sad

I don't see how the .410 exemption could only be for kids....as that would surely be age discrimination.


As a professional old fart I can tell you that age discrimination is not against the law  Angry Sad Shocked Angry
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #22 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:42pm
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I cant see there be many adults going to be using .410 . Ive had hunters look at me and the kids and think im bullshitting them when i tell them the kids have shot parries and swans with the .410 ive even had them say what are you going to kill with that thing little do they know its firing pellets the same speed as their 12ga. Cheesy
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #23 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:27pm
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right on hauraki
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #24 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:54pm
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Just show that if the pellets are put in the right places at the right range they will kill,no matter what you use,good on you hauraki,steel does the same thing, Wink Wink
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #25 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:57pm
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so .410 semis for the future.  Smiley
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #26 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 11:55pm
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What about muzzleloaders - will they still be able to shoot lead ?
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #27 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 10:50am
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[quote author=1B61106104630761570 link=1496864464/26#26 date=1497570957]What about muzzleloaders - will they still be able to shoot lead ?[/quote]
There wouldnt be more than a hand full of muzzleloader shotgunners in NZ and couldnt see more duck hunters going down that path so they can use lead ide say they will leave them alone. Smiley
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #28 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 2:27pm
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looks like the agents might be selling a load of .410 inserts for 12gauges ?????????????????
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #29 - Jun 16th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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hauraki hunter wrote on Jun 16th, 2017 at 10:50am:
There wouldnt be more than a hand full of muzzleloader shotgunners in NZ and couldnt see more duck hunters going down that path so they can use lead ide say they will leave them alone. Smiley


I only have two shotties, both BP and one a muzzleloader.
I only found out recently the ML was steel exempt, so hope that continues - purely for selfish reasons.

  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #30 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 12:37pm
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Flintlock wrote on Jun 13th, 2017 at 3:51pm:
(


Don't sweat it. 95% of game bird hunters and trout anglers have no idea how F&G works.  Sad [/quote]

That reminds me , at the time of the original lead shot ban discussions , the banning of lead in fresh water fishing, lead lines , lures and downriggers etc , was also being discussed  , did that ever come about or is the Fishing lobby too strong ? [/quote]

Unless fishermen start using smaller lead its not an issue. Mallards pick up small bits of grit, similar in size to shotgun pellets, they're not picking up stuff the same size as sinkers etc which is why there's no change there I'd say.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #31 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 12:44pm
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hauraki hunter wrote on Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:50am:
To ban lead in 20ga and 16ga fair enough but to include 28ga  is going to kill the use of anyone using a 28ga. I think theres hardly anyone using 28ga on game birds anyway ive never seen a hunter with one.There might be alot of .410 getting sold in the next 4 years if kids can knock down ducks with them a adult with a .410 should have no trouble. Smiley


You can guarantee if they didn't do this in a 28 gauge the steel haters would simply move to using one of them with lead. There's some pretty good lead loads available.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #32 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 12:47pm
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hunta223rem wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 9:45pm:
Find it a bit undemocratic that members of fish and game council  (that are elected) are making such decisions on behalf of the people that pay for the licenses i.e. all shooters.without a referendum etc they must be in bed with the politicians


I've read this on other posts people with your view. They aren't there to make decisions for you. They're there to make management decisions for the gamebirds. If you don't like the way they do things then stand against them yourself at the elections. that's the democracy part. Do you want them to do referendums on bag limits or season length as well or just on the things you don't agree with?
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #33 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 8:46am
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Hi , I am new to your forum but wanted to see what people think of this . I own a farm with a 10 acre lake on it , we have between 12 and 16 Duck shooters on opening morning and during the season . I am not sure about the rights and wrongs of lead shot , steel is certainly not as effective as lead , mind you I miss more than most !
But I feel if the Greenies really wanted a gripe, and what I see as long term pollution is the plastic shells , we have piles of these out side our Mi Mi and so do all the others . Would it be a major issue/cost to return to paper case's ? At least then we would only be leaving paper and brass in the environment which are natural products as apposed to leaving plastic around our beautiful lakes and rivers . What do you think ?
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #34 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 8:58am
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Steel is certainly as effective as lead, you owe it to the ducks to try out different choke/ammo combinations rather than just blaming steel shot. You do have a point in regards to the plastic shells and wads for that matter. I pick up all I can find but never get them all.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #35 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 12:21pm
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Burko wrote on Jul 13th, 2017 at 8:46am:
Hi , I am new to your forum but wanted to see what people think of this . I own a farm with a 10 acre lake on it , we have between 12 and 16 Duck shooters on opening morning and during the season . I am not sure about the rights and wrongs of lead shot , steel is certainly not as effective as lead , mind you I miss more than most !
But I feel if the Greenies really wanted a gripe, and what I see as long term pollution is the plastic shells , we have piles of these out side our Mi Mi and so do all the others . Would it be a major issue/cost to return to paper case's ? At least then we would only be leaving paper and brass in the environment which are natural products as apposed to leaving plastic around our beautiful lakes and rivers . What do you think ?

Ive often seen cows chewing on empty shells and found shells that have been chewed and spit out doesnt effect cows health they can eat some strange things ive seen water pipe and rope in butchered cows guts.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #36 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 12:59pm
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Paper hulls.. been there done that.

They swell in damp conditions, which includes inside the chamber, the extractor grabs the steel rim and that separates from the paper hull, the rim is ejected and you now have a paper tube stuck inside the chamber.

Been there done that.

Big No from me on paper cases.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #37 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 5:19pm
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pick up your plastic hulls and burn them in a hole...the metal bit on end rusts away in time ...... so lesser of two evils a bit of burning polution vs eyesore.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #38 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 7:00pm
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the ends brass so collect them and take to scrap man for beer money. Sure it will draw a few heads
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #39 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 7:19pm
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not anymore they arent.....pickem up with a magnet means steel...with coating.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #40 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 10:37pm
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its only thin so can be picked up with a strong magnet.the primer is magnetic so the pick up sticks usually stick with the help of these
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #41 - Jul 14th, 2017 at 7:54am
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dont give those greenie dip sticks any ideas. they read this too Cheesy Cheesy
on public land we are obligated to clean up after ourselves, in the past doc and a like have come through in the summer and enforced this. steel wads are ment to be a much harder plastic to protect our barrels, unlike lead wads but all are very slow to break down, but they do. 
federal steel loads have been used out of my maimai since change over, and the cases too do breakdown very very slowly.
I opened a hens guts this year and she had a lead pellet in there and wasnt there via forced entry either Grin
  

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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #42 - Jul 19th, 2017 at 10:20pm
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It annoys me to find fired cases around my pond.....picking them up is a simple matter and  good manners.Leaving them on the ground where they fall is just not on.The ultimate shell (from an environmental standpoint) would be paper case,steel head,and a completely biodegradable wad.I much prefer the old paper cases,they break down much faster and they put off a nice smell when fired.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #43 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 6:03am
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stop being so bloody lazy and pick up your shells,its not hard
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #44 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 7:15am
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Be interesting to see what sort of selection of 20 ga steel will be brought in,after it becomes required over water.Because some will want to stick with this gauge after the changeover.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #45 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:38pm
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I remember when everyone traded their 12 gauge double stuffers for the whizz bang 5 shot semi auto steel approved guns that proliferated the market at the time.
Do you think that will be the case again?
A period where it was ok to have a full mag in an auto?
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #46 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 4:15pm
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no id say 3shot will be here to stay  Smiley
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #47 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 8:29am
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Was in a H&F store yesterday,and noticed they had a quantity of standard length (2 and 3/4") 20 ga steel shells for sale, in size 5 steel shot.Never seen standard 20 ga steel loads for sale in NZ before so maybe it will start to be a regular stocked item now.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #48 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 5:22pm
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32 gram?
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #49 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 5:57pm
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GDMP thats a great bit of news...... lets hope people get on board and try it out and not just bury heads in sand and moan.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #50 - Dec 10th, 2017 at 8:12pm
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Believe it was Eley Vip 20 ga steel,24 gram, in size 5 steel.
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #51 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 3:41pm
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Can you tell us where? I would be very keen to try it
  
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Re: Lead shot ban
Reply #52 - Dec 11th, 2017 at 4:59pm
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Any Hunting and Fishing store I would imagine....as they all have access to Eley shotgun ammo.
  
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