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Normal Topic Avian aversion training (Read 1931 times)
stagstalker
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Avian aversion training
Jun 6th, 2017 at 5:41pm
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I am looking for some guidance on avian aversion training. I need to get it done with my 19 month lab bitch to hunt some of the places I like to go for deer.

What is others experience with it potentially effecting dogs drive with finding and retrieving other birds like ducks etc? I had issues with her not picking up birds before the season and put a lot of effort into her training where she is now going well. She is a very soft natured dog and couldn't hurt a fly if her life depended on it and I am slightly afraid that a few zaps from an e collar could affect where I have gotten with her.

In addition to this does anyone have a recommendation on who/where to get it done? I am located in Shannon/Palmerston North. Thanks  Smiley
  

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #1 - Jun 6th, 2017 at 7:15pm
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Contact your local DOC Office they should be able to advise you.
  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #2 - Jun 6th, 2017 at 7:15pm
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Can't answer your first part but check this out:
https://www.kiwisforkiwi.org/what-we-do/how-were-saving-kiwi/avoidance-training-...
Also believe there is some one in Woodville ask DOC Palm Nth
  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 5:57am
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My dog is too very soft and I too was worried with the zap.

It didn't effect her drive at all because I made it a "deer" hunt and not a bird hunt.

set up as if your deer stalking, sans rifle of course , and walk off down the track past the stuffed kiwi and scat. First time past dog showed no interest in bird, no shock.

Second time they moved the bird on pulley system, she turned towards it but kept moving forward with me, got a shock.

Third time, she gave it a wide birth and we carried on down the track = avian aversion trained.

I took her straight back to tthe ute and put her in it, finished the paper work. ANd drove off down the road a km or two and played fetch and worked on some obedience and retrieval work. Back in the ute and home.

No issues. Remember the kiwi is the bad bird it's scent and shape, not all birds. ANd your reaction/apprehension towards it getting shocked will be sensed by the dog. Make the DoC and Kiwi the baddie and not you.

  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 6:07am
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Willie at Woodville is a useful bloke.

The whole thing is set up for pig hunters in my view.  Absolute waste of time if your indicating dog is under control.


Dan

  

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:26am
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LOVETT wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 6:07am:
Willie at Woodville is a useful bloke.

The whole thing is set up for pig hunters in my view.† Absolute waste of time if your indicating dog is under control.


Dan



How many indicating dogs are under full control though? At all times? Bugger all would be my guess. I just look at it as Kiwi proofing my dog for the unlikely situation of a kiwi bursting out in front of her while my back was turned. At the end of the day shes a dog not a deer finding robot and has the potential to stuff up, if i can minimise that potential by kiwi training her then great  Smiley
Not all trainers are equal either, Ive seen some guys ask for you to drag the dog past on a leash even when the dog clearly doesn't want to go near the dummy, pretty much just associating the shock with you.
Guus Knopers in Te Puke has the best setup Ive seen and has an excellent understanding of dogs. He has a fenced off paddock with several "birds" set up- no E collar the birds all have electrified probes, you release the dog to go and explore as it pleases as you walk through the paddock with Guus, ignoring the dog so it does its own thing, when it gets shocked there's no way it can associate the shock with anything else apart from the bird. A shame he is so far away from ya.
  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #6 - Jun 8th, 2017 at 9:03am
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deerstalker wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:26am:
LOVETT wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 6:07am:
Willie at Woodville is a useful bloke.

The whole thing is set up for pig hunters in my view.† Absolute waste of time if your indicating dog is under control.


Dan



How many indicating dogs are under full control though? At all times? Bugger all would be my guess. I just look at it as Kiwi proofing my dog for the unlikely situation of a kiwi bursting out in front of her while my back was turned. At the end of the day shes a dog not a deer finding robot and has the potential to stuff up, if i can minimise that potential by kiwi training her then great† Smiley
Not all trainers are equal either, Ive seen some guys ask for you to drag the dog past on a leash even when the dog clearly doesn't want to go near the dummy, pretty much just associating the shock with you.
Guus Knopers in Te Puke has the best setup Ive seen and has an excellent understanding of dogs. He has a fenced off paddock with several "birds" set up- no E collar the birds all have electrified probes, you release the dog to go and explore as it pleases as you walk through the paddock with Guus, ignoring the dog so it does its own thing, when it gets shocked there's no way it can associate the shock with anything else apart from the bird. A shame he is so far away from ya.


Can't argue with that. 

  

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:54am
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I don't like the idea and I would encourage others to pull the pin if you turn up to do it and don't feel comfortable with the setup.  it took weeks to get my dog to go through the gate after he was shocked due to the fence arcing out, it was only that gate he didn't like and 6 months later he still hits it with speed. I don't think a soft heading dog needs to be shocked

  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #8 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 11:11am
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I will organise to get it done but if i'm not happy with how it will happen then I will re book with someone different I think. Cheers.
  

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 12:52pm
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7mm08308 wrote on Jun 11th, 2017 at 8:54am:
I don't like the idea and I would encourage others to pull the pin if you turn up to do it and don't feel comfortable with the setup.† it took weeks to get my dog to go through the gate after he was shocked due to the fence arcing out, it was only that gate he didn't like and 6 months later he still hits it with speed. I don't think a soft heading dog needs to be shocked


huge difference between an electric fence and dog collar set on low!!

plenty discussion here

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1439757731/1#1

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1393537167/37#37

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1393537167/0

have been getting dogs put through the aversion process since the late 90s with many different trainers. Was hesitant at the beginning as most are but am very happy with my current trainer "Willy Marsh", top of the crop as far as I am concerned

I have no problem with collars used for aversion, yes there are different methods to get the same outcome, but this is fast and has a great success rate for most dogs across the board, when looking at the retest stats when done by a good competent trainer.

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2017 at 1:30pm
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LOVETT wrote on Jun 7th, 2017 at 6:07am:
Willie at Woodville is a useful bloke.

The whole thing is set up for pig hunters in my view.† Absolute waste of time if your indicating dog is under control.


Dan



Why "an absolute waste of time", at the very least it will stop your dog taking you on a kiwi wind, and as deerstalker suggests and is "TOTALLY BANG ON" . Not all dogs are created or trained equal and I would suggest even the best are out of sight at some time during the hunt

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #11 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 6:30pm
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Might be too late to be helpful but here it is anyway, I got my dog certified for three years with Willie on Sunday, by the bridge cafe. I was impressed, it wasn't traumatising for my boy (vibration collar not shock) and took only around half an hour. Willie seems like a guy who knows what he's doing, I'd recomend him. The kiwis for kiwi crowd in Wellington have cancelled this years dates so I went with Willie and I think it was probably a better training course(from what Willie said-take that how you like Smiley Smiley)
  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #12 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 7:20pm
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yugman wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
Might be too late to be helpful but here it is anyway, I got my dog certified for three years with Willie on Sunday, by the bridge cafe. I was impressed, it wasn't traumatising for my boy (vibration collar not shock) and took only around half an hour. Willie seems like a guy who knows what he's doing, I'd recomend him. The kiwis for kiwi crowd in Wellington have cancelled this years dates so I went with Willie and I think it was probably a better training course(from what Willie said-take that how you like Smiley Smiley)


Sounds good. I've been busy with work so haven't gotten to it yet. What was the best way to get in touch with him and organise it? Cheers
  

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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #13 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 6:19pm
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Sounds good. I've been busy with work so haven't gotten to it yet. What was the best way to get in touch with him and organise it? Cheers


Willie Marsh: 027 385 8191 or 06 376 5155
Cost was $25. Hope your experience is as easy as mine was.
  
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Re: Avian aversion training
Reply #14 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:44pm
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Just a follow up on this. I did end up going to Willie out by Woodville and boy was I impressed. Very easy and a great setup with birds on pull strings and making noises etc. He reads the dogs really well and knows what he is doing. My girl only got two little taps on the vibration collar for having a sniff and then kept clear from then on. Once he was happy he removed the collar and finished the circuit so she didnít relate anything to the collar. Highly recommended.

Cheers.
  

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