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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Fiordland Wapiti (Read 7020 times)
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #30 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 8:04pm
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Oscar wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 7:57pm:
I think you've got it completely around the wrong way.  Smiley HOSIs are most likely to be funded user-pays, as the FWF effectively acts. Not a general levy on recreational hunters.

The more easily/widely available/widespread a species/herd/area, the less the reason for it to be a HOSI, I think. Should be reserved for special cases.


Yeah, thats valid. This thread has prompted me to start thinking about the issue, and I'm sure that there are many valid perspectives. I think that "User pays" though is not the only funding mechanism available to the GAC so a general or broader benefit might be expected from the funder.
I thought "completely around the wrong way" was a bit harsh Smiley
  

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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #31 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 12:38pm
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[/color]One of the group turned round and said "Yeah? Well if I pay the money I'm shooting whatever I f*****n well like mate! As long as it's a bull"[color=#000000]

Mr stretch heard this comment above. and didn't like it, same with me.
Have listened to similar comments over the years, tails of yeah we shot 5 - 6 - 7 stags this year, roared them in. This is from the wap blocks, I've always taken a dim view of those hunters. Tipping over everything with antlers.  Sounds good over a few beers, gun hunters, the man.

NZ hunting fraternity still has that culture alive and well, that's the way we are like it or not. The more the merrier.

Rules are hard to enforce, education the way to go, in saying that some people will never learn. And just because hunter a leaves a bull or a stag because its not big enough hunter b might class it as a trophy so it is a very subjective topic.

An earlier thread on what I will call the "duley" head, that was shot last year, seems a number of people let that animal go to grow out for another year, and good on you fellas for that. I bet there would be a majority of hunters out there that would shoot it if they spied it, it looked big and trophy of a life time (me included most likely, because it's bigger than anything else I have seen) issue with that story were the circumstances.

PAL has opened debate and rightly put it out there.
It wasn't that long ago some of those heads in that you tube clip would be have been trophies and heads with DS scores in the 280's were winning NZDA comps. Times and head quality has changed for the better. It was quite a good clip and hopefully those guys now will expect to shoot something bigger and leave the younger bulls.


  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #32 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 3:35pm
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The "I'll shoot anything" idea is something that's probably a result of game going from being managed and valued to become ng a pest. most of us go thru the stage of shoot as many as possible. (or used to)

But now theres a different attitude developing IMO, that deer etc can be managed and that doing this, is resulting in better quality animals.
FWF have led the way.
but also the big reductions of deer and Tahr have led to better feed and now better heads. Not exactly Game management, but has had positive spin offs.

Theres a chance to capitilize on where we're at now, and improve the quality of hunting, IMO

There will always be the "I'll do what I like" attitude among some hunters. Maybe it will decease over time.
The raising of these issues, like the wapiti age stuff, helps spread the message.

Ditto with the NZ Hunter show about the Pitt river head, or wherever it was
Even if theres not agreement.

But a similar issue exists with red deer. IMO.

Guess NZ is going thru a transition, even including the government/DOC etc, but it will take time to happen.

But the one place attitudes should change, asap, is in the wapiti area.


Its interesting, hunting activity increases dramatically over the roar period, according to DOC permit issues stats.suggesting "trophy" hunters are very much in the majority.




  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #33 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 5:43pm
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interesting thread guys,   bloody shame theres blokes talkin the talk but cant walk for shit............................

downside to the Hunter Draw out for shooting, is there would no doubt be animals shot an left an no one would really know....

i suppose the Chopper crews have a fair idea of what comes out of there?  or does every head through the FWF get 'registered' so to speak?

that video on first page is cool but yeah,  I think once a mate shoots one, Everyones gotta shoot one.

  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #34 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 6:08pm
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I'll have to agree with TH - and I believe it'll take another generation or two to knock it out of us.

I've never been a trophy hunter, only ever brought two sets of antlers out of the bush, but I did know people who were - and I fully understood and admired the effort they put into securing a good head.
And I knew a good one when I saw it.

I've never been to Fiordland, had my opportunities - just never got there. To me it is the last true remaining wilderness area and people need to adjust to the fact that the good/bad old days are gone and attitudes needs to change.

I think hunters themselves will have the most effect with attitudes. As a meat hunter I was well aware of the disapproval of others and changed areas frequently when I felt threatened - and there were times when I was.
That had an effect on me and there were many times I denied being what I was - embarrassed, ashamed, scared of a thumping, I don't know - probably all of them.

At the same time I'm very aware that an animal doesn't require any head gear at all to be considered a trophy, it's all in the hunt - and that is all you remember at the end of the day.

And I'll add here - some of those memories are of animals I never got.


  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #35 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 10:47pm
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Its great to see this thread develop, a couple of points I'd like to pick up on is that most of the contributor are sadden by the actions of a few.
If we keep voicing our displeasure and advocating for change in attitude towards trophy herds more and more will start listen. Take note of the people that are not replying to this thread you can guarantee they are watching.
With the GAC to  me its a organization that requires a lot of pressure from the recreation hunter, we have the most numbers on the ground with the smallest representation on the board it requires our voice to be heard to make a difference.
Fiordland management plan is up for renewal this year and the FWF needs our support by voicing our opinion and making as much noise as possible to say that we support a trophy herd of wapiti in Fiordland not just any older deer we are going to bomb up on at first site.
Don't worry DOC are watching threads like this as well.
  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #36 - Apr 22nd, 2017 at 8:35am
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I've been in to the Lugar/Glaisnock area a few times.
Went there for the challenge, the scenery, the hunting and fishing too.
To me, just surviving and thriving there solo was the reason. It's tough and one mistake that far from civilization could be the last, as with many hunting situations.
I've never seen a fully adult bull but have seen a few immature animals and cows and calves.   But I've never had the desire too put a bullet in one as I'm a meat hunter and there's way too much meat on a full grown red, kat alone something the size of a horse.    I have taken animals out in the kayak, but they were all shot on the last day of a camp, usually 6-10 days.
For me, it's the topography and weather that are the challenges (although the sandflies are up there challenge wise) and just going, being and surviving are what I remember, although I do fish more than hunt and some of the fishing is extraordinary.
I  do understand trophy hunters and I sometimes hare hunts with trophy hunters.   But is do not, and never will understand the "roar it in and smack it over" macho bullshit that's about numbers, not trophies.  That has never made sense to me as it seems just a disrespectful waste of a (meat) resource.
And 5 bulls between 2 guys?  Say no more.
  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #37 - Apr 22nd, 2017 at 9:56pm
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would luv to see more of these videos on youtube which show the wrong thing!
links link links Cheesy Cool
  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #38 - Apr 22nd, 2017 at 10:57pm
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Try searching you tube "fiordland wapiti hunting" there are plenty of young animals there dead an alive.
Ashfishman I like your description on surviving fiordland, it certainly is a challenge.
One of the other reason I go is to find these.








Just to name a few, it fills in the times when the animals are resting.

  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #39 - Apr 22nd, 2017 at 11:26pm
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Lots of good stuff on this thread.

I must admit, the ability to legally just shoot any animal, in unlimited numbers at about anytime of the year is mind boggling to me.  As long as doing such a thing is acceptable legally and socially, it will be about impossible to prevent people from doing just that.

I personally like the tag system, proposed by a earlier poster but that's just me.  Take an animal, have to sit X amount of time.  In the states we do this with high demand hunts such as Bighorn sheep, mtn goat and the like.

As for the argument it will encourage people to shoot animals and leave them in the bush, that will happen by these same people no matter what guidelines or rules are set in place.  My father once told me, "Most people do the right thing when others are watching, a good person makes the right decisions when no is around to judge your actions."  This is how I live my life.

If you base you hunting success on taking large animals and what and how many animals you have taken, you are missing out on true experiences of hunting.  You would be better served going to a farm and shooting an animal for wall. 

I have been to Fiordland once.  It was difficult to say the least but it is awe inspiring and a place that is resonates within my heart on par to high peaks I hunt got elk at home.
  

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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #40 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 8:32pm
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We have been bought up with hunting success being shooting something, a hereditary thing from the past, deer culling days and meat shooting and large mobs of deer. There are plenty of books that talk about and have lively stories on their authors hunting exploits, great reading.
You just need to read the hunting mags or this forum and it's about people out their doing it, meat for the pot (and that's most of my hunting), you see lots of dead juvenile stags from people hunting the roar etc etc, not trophy hunting as such, easy to call them up in the roar. (great fun roaring them in, I love it, and thats as far as it goes usually, I let them run off) If I want meat I'll shoot something that is good eating and for me that's not rank rutting stag.

You see the proud photos of these guys showing off small heads and often multiple heads, the gun hunter. And we see this all the time, that is our hunting culture. Not picking on anyone here, that's the way it is.

So onto the Wapiti area. It is special, always has been, they used to have rules, and obviously heads were larger and from memory one head per hunter at one stage. And those keen chaps would spend weeks in there sometimes, and they would leave the young ones and small ones. The area was not under the pressure or popularity we have now.
We should not be surprised some, especially younger and newer Wap hunters shooting these juveniles in the heat of the moment. Big deer, big long 8 or 10 points, bang down it goes. They can go home and say yeah I shot a wap stag/bull.

It still pisses me off though. What are they thinking. (and they bring the heads out as proud as punch) That's my rant.



  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #41 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 1:46am
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DILLIGAF wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 12:47pm:
The TAG system works in the USA as it also has a legal size or age and it is enforced. Age for sheep,  number of points for most deer including elk depending on location. So do you issue a TAG for an animal of a certain number of points 5 x 5 min or 6 x 6 min. You could also get a red type tag to engage hunters in the control of animal numbers. Keeping in mind these are no longer Wapiti/ELK these are Fiordland deer.

"Tag systems would tend to encourage people to leave heads in the bush each time they saw something better"
Disagree a little -the people that would do this under a TAG system are the same people doing it now but at the moment it is legal to take multiple animals.


I honestly believe a tag system needs to be implemented BUT I lived in BC Canada for some time and observed areas that had 4 point rules and watched mature 3 and 2 point massive mule deer bucks and whitetail bucks breed ,while immature 4 plus point bucks got shot, rendering trophy potential. Be careful what you ask for. From what I have seen there has been some big trophies come out of Fiordland this year so far
  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #42 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 12:22pm
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Age is hard to judge
Minimum 12 points is not
>50 inches can be hard to judge but if it tips it's head back and the antlers touches it's arse.... fire away!!
Even though they are big animals compared to reds I reckon you will know when it is "The One"
  

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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #43 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 1:45pm
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Young deer and old deer are easy to judge, it's the ones in between that can be tricky, that's when experience from looking at plenty of deer and not shooting helps.
  
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Re: Fiordland Wapiti
Reply #44 - Apr 25th, 2017 at 7:48pm
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Lots of good points on this thread.
One system that could work is if you don't return a lower jaw from a bull shot during the ballot period then all names of that party are excluded from the ballot for the next five years, also if the age of a bull shot during the ballot period comes back less than say 6 years old then all members of that party are excluded from the ballot system for the next 5 years.
I guess the only problem with this would be that someone from the FWF would have to be present everytime a party fly's out or boats out of the Wapiti blocks. We must remember these guys are volunteers and already spend countless hours managing the Wapiti herd, I just hope that it doesn't get to a point where these guys throw their hands up in despair and walk away.
  
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