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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Let's see your black powder rifles (Read 14526 times)
SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #30 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 3:02am
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Well, maybe a hacksaw, file and chisel man - but thank you FL, that's a nice thing to say.

That's the second one of those I built - the first I gave a different treatment with metal patchbox and carving, but haven't seen that one for a long time and forgotten detail now.
Both have the large Chambers Siler lock (which is what I think you have on your .50 early Lancaster) and flat bottom grooved Rice barrels - think they were called the 'Gunmaker's series'.
Both kits were from Dunlap Woodcrafts in the states because they had the components I wanted - and both were bloody expensive.
I poured the nosecap on the one photo'd in pewter from an old tankard I had and made a fibre optic front sight because I couldn't see the German silver one in the dusk on a deer I had standing in the open ten yards in front of me.
I've still to 'sign and date' that one, and shoot a deer with it ......... maybe one day ?

Twist is 1:66" and it shoots the Lyman minie (paper patched) very well - just looked up my notes and have put 10 shots into 1 3/8" at 50 yards - wiping every third shot.

*Oops - edit that last bit to read ... 8 shots into 1 1/2".

I enjoyed putting that gun together - but incredibly time consuming.

My interest right now is in single shot BP guns and I've got one I built back sometime in the seventies but am a bit reluctant to post it on here - as no one else has.

Probably need a BP Breachloading page, and I expect that would fill up pretty quick - there's some nice stuff out there.

  
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Flintlock
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #31 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 8:56pm
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Jim Chambers makes fine rifle parts and rifles , Rice barrels have a reputation for quality and  accuracy .
A member of this forum has a very nice left hand Chambers English Gentleman's Sporting  rifle that he brought as a kit and got it built up here , http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles05.htm
My .50 Lancaster has the large Siler lock , the .54 Henry has a L&R Manton lock , I use a round ball in all my muzzle loaders as I an very allergic to lead fumes I can't cast bullets so I buy Hornady swaged ones . I sort and batch them by weight , this works very well .
My .54 Henry's hunting load  shoots  75mm high at 50m and to point of aim at 100m using 120gr of FFFG Goex and a .535 round ball patched with pillow ticking and lubed with Mink Oil Tallow , It averages 1400 FPS over the chronograph with that load .
I used to be on a ML forum in the states , and was told by several members that Lancaster rifles didn't have walnut stocks , then one highly respected collector said he had 6 originals with walnut stocks and the discussion stopped . Wink
  

Shooting is the most fun you can legally have with your clothes on .
Proverbs 12:27
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #32 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 8:33am
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I did look at those English Gentleman's rifles and was tempted, but had developed a relationship with the bloke at Dunlap's - so went there.
All in all, I don't believe you can go wrong with either kit - nor those from TOTW.
I went with maple because of the style of the rifle, though I did consider walnut - and even cherry, but got talked out of it.
The first gun I did, the bloke wanted all the bells and whistles, but I baulked at inlays - wouldn't do them.
It came out pretty nice, but like anything you always think you can do better - hence the second one.
And - I don't know if it is ?

That first one shoots 120gr FFg Goex with the .535" ball - and does it very well. Don't know if the owner has shot anything with it - have lost contact somewhat with him.
Last I heard was he'd taken it to Fiordland, after which he mailed me to ask how to make them go off in the wet.
Suggested a 'cows knee' in oilskin or greased leather, or even a full waterproof cover - don't know if he made one ?
Did make a horn for that one and scrimmed it for him, and a powder measure/pourer out of a hippo tooth I didn't scrim as it was so hard.

If I ever did another one it'd be a schimmel, probably in walnut and it would have a short barrel - pretty much your Henry.
Wouldn't need a patchbox - carry all my stuff (ready loads etc,) in my pockets anyway - or my pack.
I notice that 8lb - feels heavy.

Tell you one to look up - if you have the interest.
A bloke on the other forum, 'Shooting Hunting' documented a very interesting build - a Sharps in 45/70.
It's under - 'Guess what I'm doing today.'
He made the barrel for that as well - remarkably innovative man.

Got pointed to that - thanks MD.

Oh - I shoot 80grs FFg Goex under that minie, 430gr from off the top of my head. Recoil is comfortable, but it does have a higher mid-range than the ball if you're shooting out to 100 yds.
  
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Micky Duck
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #33 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 8:54am
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Flintlock
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #34 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 11:25pm
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For those who are interested the Schimmel or Barn Rifle was a very plain budget M/L rifle usually in a smaller caliber and lacking in expensive brass fittings etc , Kept in the barn for shooting pests and pigs for slaughter . Many are still in use today

https://claysmithguns.com/barn_gun.htm click on this , no longer inexpensive
  

Shooting is the most fun you can legally have with your clothes on .
Proverbs 12:27
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #35 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 9:05am
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Allen Martin in the States does a nice schimmel too.

And just because I reckon this is one of the best things I've ever done, you are going to see it - whether you want to or not.

The below pic is scrimmed on a sperm whale tooth and is of Thomas Crean, an Irishman who was with Shackleton during his 1914-17 Antarctic Expedition.
I copied that off an Expedition photograph - really liked the image.

Had lost my license due to a cataract and had got totally bored and was scratching (pun) for something to do when I did that.
Wearing three pairs of $2 shop glasses, one over the other, I did it with a sharp scriber using dots and scratches, then rubbed in ink to see what I had - then wiped it off again, the ink staying in the scratches.
Took a week to do - and it gave me a hell of a headache.

Anyway - that's a scrimshaw and if you ever want to tart up a horn or bone handled knife, that's a good way to do it.

And, because I haven't tun out of words yet - Scrimshaw as an art form was originated by the Nantucket/New England whalers during the mid 1750's - a result of them looking for something to do during their leisure hours out on the 'big blue'.

They probably smoked pipes and gossiped like old women as well - but that doesn't seem to be documented.

So, tart up your horn or whatever with scratches and ink and you'll be a 'Scrimshander' - just like me.


« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:10am by SF90 »  
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Flintlock
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #36 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:44am
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Great scrimshaw work ,I recognised the portrait immediately.  I have tried to scrimshander a horn but gave up in disgust .

I have a horn I got from a guy from the Bay of Islands , it had been in his family for as long as any one could remember .
It depicts the Charlotte , from Bristol Rhode Island USA , she was a ship of 193 tons ,.Owned by the D'Wolf family who were involved in many maritime businesses that include the slave trade, privateering,  whaling, plus other business on land .
Captained by John Sabens the Charlotte sailed to Havana and Africa  on 10th August 1804 and returned 17th March 1805, 
If you look at the details you will see snakes , a mermaid , proteas , masonic symbols .
I suspect it came to NZ on a USA whaling ship,with the sailor who carved it,  as Rhode Island was a whaling port  and a lot of ships came here from RI

Horn


Protea


Snake heads and spout


Heart with arrows


Fish and Masonic symbols


T Griffis ( Carver )


The Charlotte :


Mermaid
  

Shooting is the most fun you can legally have with your clothes on .
Proverbs 12:27
The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt.
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #37 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:25pm
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That is an interesting horn - in some ways it's sad to see it leave the original family, but also good that it got to someone who appreciates and knows its history. So much stuff like that gets tossed at the tip - I see it all the time when the 'olds' pass on and the kids, or grand kids clean up after them. We had an open tip out here for many years and you wouldn't believe the stuff people throw away - no understanding nor appreciation.
The Council do it different now - us 'seagulls' were a constant irritation, so they ensured what got biffed - stayed biffed.
Incredibly sad.

I've never seen a vintage horn in the flesh - only photos.


That tooth I did also has a story ...........
Got gifted that by a friend along the road, Brigadier Ian Thorpe who was sent to Fiji at the time of the Sitiveni Rabuka coup in 1987.
Whale teeth have a tradition in Fiji and are regarded as Tabua and can only be passed on as a gift - and very few leave that country.
It likely found its way into Fiji in the possession of a Russian whaler in the 1960's and was exchanged for services/favours - fairly common practice back then.
When I was given it - I was told to do something with it and for many years it sat in my drawer as I had no idea as to what I was going to do - that tooth frightened me.

I had scrimmed a horn many years before, but memory tells me it was a fairly shabby effort - then I came across that photo in an old shipping book a lady had sent me from England - and couldn't get it out of my head.
So one day I took that book into town and got that photo copied and sized so I could transfer data from the photo to the tooth with dividers - then got stuck into it.
Started with the eyes and muffed them three times, having to sand it all back and start again until I got it right.

Was thoroughly startled with the result - I'm not normally that good.

Then it sat for a year before I showed Ian - was crapping my pants he wouldn't like it as I hadn't done a traditional nautical theme - as on your horn.
But he did.

That was sixteen, seventeen years ago I did that.

Have done some more scrimming since then on horn and bone, but nothing like that tooth - very proud of that.

And to continue with stuff that gets biffed - because this still upsets me.
Had another friend along the road die suddenly with a stroke - and did he have some interesting stuff, was always poring through it - and he liked to show it.
He had no kids and the estate got left to his nephews.
I was passing one day and watched the trailers being loaded up with his possessions as they cleared the house and garage - but I didn't know them and didn't linger to chat.

Then I got talking to another neighbour and he told me that the bulk of it had gone to the tip - and that floored me.
So I went back and had a chat to the nephews and suggested that anything they were dumping they leave outside - and I'd flog it.
Was quite hard to do that - had to swallow some considerable embarrassment - I was blatantly bludging.

Next evening I was back and found two trailers loaded - one obviously with rubbish, the other with good stuff.
Amongst the good stuff was an old tin, still full and marked 'Sperm Whale Oil' and a whole bunch of other stuff from that era that was too good to flog.
Going to the other trailer I fished out some stuff including an unopened packet of 'National Sperm' candles - which I took.
Back the next evening I caught the nephews still there ........
"You didn't take much ?"

And I told them what I got.
"Why didn't you take stuff from the other trailer, it's all being dumped, we've got nowhere to store it"

And I was so shocked I had nothing to say.

The next evening it had just about all gone - a few bits and pieces scattered here and there - and a sixty litre drum sitting there marked 'Martha' - and I knew exactly what was in there.
"What's in there," one of them said - "Just dirt by the look of it."

And after what seemed like quite a long time - I told them.

That drum contained the broken up sediment from the hopper at the Martha gold mine at Waihi.
They were cleaned out every so often and the sediment sold to a company in Australia who extracted the gold using mercury as it was so fine. That drum load sold for $200 - and that was in the days when gold was $35/ounce.
Then I helped them load it in their wagon.

Three people knew about that 'Martha' drum, Bob (the bloke who died), myself and another neighbour and it wasn't long after that I bumped into him.
"Wonder if they found Bob's 'Martha' drum.
"Oh yep."
"And, I suppose you told them ?"
"yep."
"f**king idiot."




  
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #38 - Feb 23rd, 2019 at 5:07pm
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While no 'frontstuffer' - she was built for blackpowder shooting.
Calibre is 45/70 and I got her registered with the Lower Hutt Police 17 April 1980.
I built her from scratch - all bar the barrel which I got from Tony Hawkins as a blank (1:20" twist) and the lock mainspring which I took from an old lock as I kept breaking my homemade ones.
She weighs 8 1/2 lb and started off as a Sharps copy (sort of) .... then I got imaginative.
Wood is a piece of walnut I got off Din Collins and I single point bored the chamber with a bar - took three goes before I was happy with concentricity.
Butt stock fastener is a through bolt under the butt cap.
The action block was drilled then filed square with a back cut radius in all four corners before shaping to stop any cracking when hardening.
The lock internals were copied from an original back action lock just in case my hardening was not up to scratch and I needed to swap parts over, but it's all hanging in there pretty well - and I've shot that gun a lot over the years.

She shoots well enough, I've taken seven or eight deer with her and I could quite comfortable smack the 12" gong at 100 yards offhand.
She shoots tighter off the bench, but I put a huge front sight bead I faced with my grandmother's gold wedding band as I needed to see it under all light conditions and that limits fine shooting - and I got a bollocking for doing that.

The under lever is 'Alexander Henry' as I had one - and liked it and the little lever at the front of the action dumps the internals out when you depress the 'keeper' button, twist it open and pull it out.
That was how it was supposed to work - but I have to take off the fore end as I've got a spring in there that needs to be slid out.
That trigger guard was a chore, carved it out from a solid block of steel - and I have no idea why I made it so damned big.
The hammer was also a solid block which I milled, hack sawed and filed. And I never did file the checkering on the spur - some bugger hardened it before I had finished with it.



The hammer smacks a transfer plate as I've got a non-angled firing pin - and it works pretty well as I can't ever recall a misfire.
The pin is spring loaded and is retractable and when in the 'fully back' position any gas escape from a pierced primer is supposed to be dumped down through the action - have never had it happen and I've put some moderately pokey nitro loads through her - just out of interest.
The firing pin is flanged and loads into the block from the front and is held there with a 'keeper' plate.
The under lever both extracts and ejects the fired case depending on how sharp you drop it.



Action open with the worlds finest bush boots in the background.

« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2019 at 9:34am by SF90 »  
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Micky Duck
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #39 - Feb 23rd, 2019 at 6:58pm
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she is a thing of beauty Mate.
  
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #40 - Feb 24th, 2019 at 9:59am
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Cheers MD.
I never finished that gun, it was supposed to have a top ramp like on the Ruger No1 with express sights to smooth out the lines but I got impatient to shoot it and that will never happen now.
I also lost the shape of the butt stock and made it too skinny at the aft end.
The hammer is a bit wrong - the spur needed to be wider and the 'screw' boss could have been heftier - bigger in diameter as it looks a bit silly against that massive lock plate. That also looks a bit wrong - could have made it less broad so it didn't look like a banana.
The rear sight is a bit clumsy too, it functions okay but was really clapped together to get it up and running.
Probably being a bit critical, but they are things I notice.

« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:29am by SF90 »  
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Micky Duck
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #41 - Feb 24th, 2019 at 10:05am
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small things/minor details, she is a thing of beauty and functions well......what more does a man need???
  
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SF90
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Re: Let's see your black powder rifles
Reply #42 - Feb 24th, 2019 at 10:20am
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Yeah, I'm a bit nit-picky - had a lot of fun with that gun.

« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:28am by SF90 »  
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