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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) New Restrictions on DOC Permits (Read 11205 times)
madfish71
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New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Nov 1st, 2015 at 2:01am
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4.The following activities are strictly prohibited under this Permit during the hours of darkness (½ hour after sunset to ½ hour before sunrise): ◦discharging a firearm
◦use of spotlights, torches, vehicle headlights, or any other artificial light source
◦use of night vision equipment, infra red and heat detecting devices.


5.Attaching a torch or other light source to a firearm is prohibited

So the new rules are even without a firearm, you not allow to use night vision equipment, spotlights  or torches to search around for game even if you are just looking and have no firearm with you.
(clearly because I suppose you could of ditched the firearm)
Whats  the story if Im a tramper, have no hunting permit, and wandering around in DOC with a spotlight or night vision.??    Is their different rules for one and not the other.??
Whats this mean if im hunting way out in the back country, right on dark, and walk out later back down the track in the dark back to my car .
Clearly im not hunting, but if using a torch to get my way out, hear a nosie and shine the torch up the hill and get seen by a DOC worker have I breached my permit???
How about thermal gear that some use during daylight...can younow not take in bush incase you get delayed and walk out in the dark and get found with it at carpark ???
S
  
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Huntsouth
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 2:37am
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We are talking above the hours of darkness as you have quoted. Thermal gear used during daylight?
No law is perfect, but what about common sense? I have walked out of the hills using my head torch, carrying my rifle as zillions do and don't think I will be having an issue in the future with shining it on a DOC worker or someone else walking along a track or coming off the tops after dark etc. Relax.
  
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james
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 3:11am
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Its a hunting permit. Not a tramping permit.
  

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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 3:29am
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There is a real difference in walking with a torch or headlamp and flicking a spot light or good torch over country looking for a animal.
As old mate said

Relax  Smiley
  

Taking the gun for a walk, oh yeah
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madfish71
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:29am
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Yeah, all good, I doubt also theres a problem about walking out with a torch etc. Clearly they making sure anyone after dark in DOC land that was hunting etc doesn't have any kind of light or nightvision gear that would suggest they could or have been hunting during darkness.
What I want to know is lets say I want go to a local DOC track, or bit of bush and take a spotlight to see what the animal numbers are like , whats there etc and take no hunting equipment.
Because I know the rules if I got stopped by DOC, even thou had no rifle, they assume im hunting, prob hid or ditched the firearm somewhere and I have a battle  to defend myself.
If some tramper on the other hand, whose never hunted, has no licence or firearm wants to wander around with a spotlight seeing how many deer or pigs he can see, having no idea about the no spotlight rules in DOC land will he get the same treatment as me?
Wheres it written for the average person of the street that you not allow to spotlight animals to look at??
From what I got told, if you have a permit and used spotlights, night vision you going to get yourself in a whole load of crap even if yopu didn't have a rifle ith you as how you going to prove its not hidden somewhere.
On the other hand if my girlfriend that's never hunted goes out with a spotlight how can they enforce anything on her? You don't need a permit to enter DOC tramping do you.
Andif that's so how can they enforce anything on me??    Cant be different laws for one and the other if no firearm.
Just wondered what it all means
  
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Tararua Hunter
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:45am
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Quote:
There are permit conditions that you must adhere to when hunting.

The conditions only apply to hunting

If a tramper was using lights etc, the department would have to prove "hunting".  was happening. not likely if no firearms about

But, a hunters, (with firearm)  travelling at night, could arguably be accused of breaking those rule.
Quote:
use of spotlights, torches, vehicle headlights, or any other artificial light source

Like a powerful headlamp. or even a simple torch.

That would be a contravention of the permit condition

If a hunter, (without a permit) got caught with a light (and firearm), then they would get done for "Hunting without authority".
That's the offence, using a spotlight isn't a specific offence under the WAC act.
The evidence would be, using a spotlight ie searching for deer at night

Interesting, be careful where you use that  headlamp Roll Eyes

  
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madfish71
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:07am
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:45am:
Quote:
There are permit conditions that you must adhere to when hunting.

The conditions only apply to hunting

If a tramper was using lights etc, the department would have to prove "hunting".  was happening. not likely if no firearms about

But, a hunters, (with firearm)  travelling at night, could arguably be accused of breaking those rule.
Quote:
use of spotlights, torches, vehicle headlights, or any other artificial light source

Like a powerful headlamp. or even a simple torch.

That would be a contravention of the permit condition

If a hunter, (without a permit) got caught with a light (and firearm), then they would get done for "Hunting without authority".
That's the offence, using a spotlight isn't a specific offence under the WAC act.
The evidence would be, using a spotlight ie searching for deer at night

Interesting, be careful where you use that  headlamp Roll Eyes


So are you saying if I deem myself purely a tramper tonight, go out for a midnight walk in a DOC block with nothing but a spotlight, looking for how many deer, possums, etc I can count in a couple of hours and get approached by DOC or the police I have nothing to worry about as it be impossible to prove ive broken any law as being a tramper I don't need a permit, broken no laws and unless you find a weapen I don't have, its impossible to be charged with hunting without a permit, or in my case hunting after the hours of darkness as I have a currant permit?
  
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:22am
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I use a torch on doc administered land all the time...plurry hard to cook tea or go take a dump without tripping over something without it,
the same double standard goes for dogs
a loopy tramper can go wherever the hell they like with all their pooches running amok and DOC can/will do SFA about it but if I get caught with my well controlled hunting buddy beside me ...I can get in the doo doohs and she can get terminal headache........ Ive seen rotty and foxxy on loopy track a couple of hundred yards ahead of the owner........
I dont hunt with a canine,she is a packhorse or at least thats what the guy we bought her off told me Wink Wink
  
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:30am
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I hate seeing spotlights moving around the hill when I'm hunting, I've had my tent lit up a few times by spot lighters. People on the other end of the light don't know if the user is hunting or not so its not a nice experience. If people want to know animal numbers on public land there are better methods than spotlighting them. Look at sign, look at growth etc, those things hunters do....
I like the new rules, makes it harder for spotlighters to say they were just finding their way home etc.
won't get in trouble walking out by head lamp, spotlights for navigation aren't needed if you rely on that you need to develop some other skills
  
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Tararua Hunter
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:31am
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Quote:
So are you saying if I deem myself purely a tramper tonight, go out for a midnight walk in a DOC block with nothing but a spotlight, looking for how many deer, possums, etc I can count in a couple of hours and get approached by DOC or the police I have nothing to worry about as it be impossible to prove ive broken any law as being a tramper I don't need a permit, broken no laws and unless you find a weapen I don't have, its impossible to be charged with hunting without a permit, or in my case hunting after the hours of darkness as I have a currant permit?

yep
DOC or police would have to prove "hunting", which include Searching
would be difficult to prove hunting, if you have no means of killing  or capturing an animal
if you had a big portable spotlight, (not head lamp or torch) they might take a dim view of it but cant see how they could prove hunting. If your off track, wandering around , actually spotlighting, know your a hunter normally, think your a notorious poacher , they might try to. cant see it succeeding though
  
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #10 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:34am
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Maybe we are over thinking this.
Ever since the spot lighting fatality on Kaimanawa Rd DOC have been very hot on spot lighters. Even to the extent of running several covert operations to catch known spot lighters in the Taupo/ Wanganui conservancies.

If you spot light or hunt with torches on conservation and public land you are a bloody idiot. Whats difficult to understand about that?
Now its spelt out specifically on permits. I don't think that we should get our knickers in a knot over the fine print. All we need to do is behave and be sensible. That shouldn't be so hard.

With modern torches (even head torches) being so powerful, I'm not surprised DOC have taken this step to curtail hunters.
  

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.......
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Tararua Hunter
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #11 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:58am
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Now its spelt out specifically on permits. I don't think that we should get our knickers in a knot over the fine print. All we need to do is behave and be sensible. That shouldn't be so hard.

very true
if a hunter was legitimately  travelling at night, by torch/head lamp, it would be easy to deny hunting with a spotlight, if ever challenged by DOC.
a court would probably accept that, so DOC isn't likely to prosecute.
but if caught say with a rifle with rounds in the mag, at night, it might get sticky
  
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madfish71
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #12 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 8:03am
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I think its all good that it is now written on the permit so its clear that when out in darkness in the bush with a firearm you better not have the gear that would strongly support that you could be spotlighting.
I was asking about tramping with a spotlight primary for the fact that I know someone that wants to take out their young son to look for deer and possums just to show him animals at night in the flesh as they not hunters and something cool to do.
Prob the best thing to do is go to DOC, say that's what they going to do, show me a law they breaking if not allowed otherwise you have the heads up and if you want come out and have a search for a firearm etc more than welcome Cool
  
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #13 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:18pm
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I'm often an hour or 2 from my camp after dark,watching a slip or clearing till the shooting light is gone. Hunting time is limited so it makes sence to make the most of your daylight shooting hours.
I'm sure as hell not going to sleep in the rain when a warm dry camp is close by.
Stop poisoning the shit out of our bush doc,and I'll leave my torch at home....yeah right.. Roll Eyes
  
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Re: New Restrictions on DOC Permits
Reply #14 - Nov 1st, 2015 at 6:51pm
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Nov 1st, 2015 at 7:58am:
Quote:
Now its spelt out specifically on permits. I don't think that we should get our knickers in a knot over the fine print. All we need to do is behave and be sensible. That shouldn't be so hard.

very true
if a hunter was legitimately  travelling at night, by torch/head lamp, it would be easy to deny hunting with a spotlight, if ever challenged by DOC.
a court would probably accept that, so DOC isn't likely to prosecute.
but if caught say with a rifle with rounds in the mag, at night, it might get sticky


That is often how i travel first thing in morning and last thing at night, nothing in chamber but mag loaded, i would surley loose the mag if i had to take it out and i am not going to empty it, Good luck to them for trying to charge me!! and if i have meat in my bag will they try and claim i shot that under torchlight??

getting a bit mad out there

Hamish
  
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