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Normal Topic TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS (Read 9289 times)
fishynigel
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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #15 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 6:07am
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As you say Ian "The rivers and streams of NZ are unique in that by and large they are 'wild fisheries', and this together with their 'remoteness' and being in such a 'natural state', is the reason that overseas anglers (together with many NZ'ers) travel long distances and at great expense to come here to fish."

And here we are debating whether our indigenous Maori should be allowed to grow some trout in a concrete pond for special occasions while wealthy foreigners hire helicopters and guides to access the best fishing.

Don't you find that horrifying and a long way from an egalitarian paradise.
  
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Alan
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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #16 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 1:25pm
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I think the wool is being pulled over everyone's eyes with some of the information being published by the spin doctors.  Ie the hatchery has not been used as a hatchery to breed fish to a size suitable for the table. It only ever bred fry (in later years) for the children's fish out ponds and in earlier years for transfer to Rotorua. It was always as a back up in case of a volcanic eruption destroying the fishery.
The danger is in breeding a lot of fish to adult in confined hatchery conditions brings with it disease and in particular whirling disease.  The raceways are only 50 meters from the River and are subject to flooding from the river.  That would destroy the Taupo fishery and the economy of the region.
How does anyone manage the poaching once some individuals can have in their possession a large number of trout which are destined for a function.   I have a degree of sympathy for the need for fish for these but I really wonder if anyone knows how bad the fish are.  It certainly will not lift their mana any!
The fact that they want doc to teach them to breed fish and the ability to expand the hatchery are the very worrying parts of the agreement.
  

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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #17 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 8:57pm
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Alan. I'd like some clarification as I'm also not sure what is misinformation and you are much more local than me.

Waste from ponds and disease risk. Government says that the pond is a closed system so there is no waste. Is this right? Obviously risk of flooding but has this ever happened in reality? Seems like this would have been thought through before the ponds were built. Any problems with disease in the kids fishing pond?

Poaching argument - I don't get this. Currently you could turn up to a Tangi and find 20 trout on the menu. How do you know where they come from? I could also smoke up 20 trout for a family wedding and you would not be able to tell whether they were poached or caught legally either. This is the issue at the moment and has nothing to do with race. It would be very easy to keep track of trout numbers and where they went from the Tuwharetoa pond.

In the end, it seems that we need more information. The big question is "how many fish are they talking about raising?" If it is only a few hundred or it may be fewer than the adjacent kids pond.

Given that both trout farming and the sale of trout are legal, it is a huge step from a few trout for significant cultural events to a commercial operation.

I have 4 chooks that I keep for eggs. That neither makes me a chicken farmer or mean that my neighbours should be worried that I'm going to want to run thousands of chickens commercially. - My 4 chickens are not "the thin edge of the wedge" - they are just 4 chickens. Same with the trout??

Last day of the season today. I'm exercising my customary right and going fishing.
  
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Alan
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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #18 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:12pm
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fishynigel wrote on Jun 29th, 2015 at 8:57pm:
Alan. I'd like some clarification as I'm also not sure what is misinformation and you are much more local than me.

Waste from ponds and disease risk. Government says that the pond is a closed system so there is no waste. Is this right? Obviously risk of flooding but has this ever happened in reality? Seems like this would have been thought through before the ponds were built. Any problems with disease in the kids fishing pond?


The hatchery is built on the V between a tributary of the Tongariro river and the Tongariro just a few hundred or so meters from where that tributary enters the main river.  The water is taken from the tributary and circulated around the hatchery.  AND THEN WHAT. They don't hold it there ...they don't pump it up to the main highway and then what! They don't evaporate it so what do they do with it.... Does it just magically disappear.... No it is discharged into the river!
The point is that there is little harm in good hatchery management when you are raising fingerlings in small numbers.
I do not recall an occasion when more than one raceway was in use and then with a few hundred fish in it NOT 10,000 ...as the fish get older they then attract disease.  The only way of stopping that is to add antibiotics to the feed. All heading down the Tongariro and into the WILD Fish population.
The fish in the Kids fish out pond are different in that they are in a large pond with clean water running in and OUT back into the stream.  They are not in large numbers and are small and the few left are then culled or released.

And yes it does flood and has wrecked the hatchery at times. I even ended up with the hatchery board walks some miles downstream on my front lawn after one flood.

  

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fishynigel
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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #19 - Jun 30th, 2015 at 9:40am
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Thanks Alan.  I got the info about the pond being a closed system from the email from the treaty settlements office to the Tongariro river motel.  It is sad if they can't even get that right.

We are also imagining different scales of operation  here  - I'm thinking a few hundred to 1000. You thinking ten thousand.  Is that what they are talking about?

I must have missed that info but if Tuwharetoa want to rear 10000 trout I'll be waving placards with you.

Where does the 10 000 number come from?

Like I said ,I'm also having trouble figuring out what info is real and what is spin.
  
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Re: TROJAN HORSES AND TAUPO FISH FARMS
Reply #20 - Jul 16th, 2015 at 1:01am
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Davey H wrote on Jun 18th, 2015 at 5:14am:
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY TONY ORMAN



Just remember because a chap is a scientist doesnít mean he canít be challenged. There are very good scientists and some very so-so average scientists.





Bob McDowell was not a so-so average scientist.  He was a world authority on NZ native fish and was widely respected by his peers both in NZ and overseas.
  
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