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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review (Read 3503 times)
Micky Duck
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #45 - Aug 10th, 2014 at 7:02am
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using subsonic 7.62x39mm 7grns trailboss and a spartan GW can Ive twice shot a rabbit at 15ish yards and its buddy has sat there not knowing whats going on till Ive cycled the bolt to reload.....better/quieter than subsonic .22 in same situation. I hear the shot but it seems bunny did not Undecided
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #46 - Aug 11th, 2014 at 12:33am
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Brakelie wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 10:46am:
ODL wrote on Aug 9th, 2014 at 2:33am:
There are several meters in NZ that can accurately test sounds.  I have one and I know that there are at least a couple in the NI and a couple in the SI.  They are expensive to get and expensive to maintain.  I just had to spend 1500 to repair and recalibrate my source which is the certified sound signal that is used each time to adjust the meter.


Hi ODL

Have you ever thought of using you meter to do this sort of testing and publishing the results?   I am sure one of the hunting mags or even the supressor makers would pay you well for such results.

It would be nice to have some factual and accurate results rather than earometers and unsuitable equipment, I'm sure the results would lead to further improvements in supressor performance as well.


Oh man, there would be tears......  That would open up a can of worms for sure.

  

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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #47 - Sep 7th, 2014 at 5:36am
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this whole thread begs the question...how quiet can we go???? eg DPT can with loads of baffles can you get a supersonic load down to piffft sound???
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #48 - Sep 7th, 2014 at 8:10am
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No. No amount of baffles are going to remove huge supersonic crack are they.
  

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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #49 - Sep 7th, 2014 at 8:14am
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yip agreed..but still begs the question
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #50 - Sep 7th, 2014 at 9:16pm
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Micky Duck wrote on Sep 7th, 2014 at 8:14am:
yip agreed..but still begs the question


Go as far as you like. Build a suppressor that is 10 times bigger than 'normal'. What do you get?  A bloody great cumbersome mass on the end of the barrel. Up to a certain size there you reach a point of diminishing returns. This will also depend on what the cartridge case size is as well.

ALL suppressors on the general market nowadays are a compromise in some way, and built to a certain size, to what the maker considers acceptable to their targeted market. As a general rule, featherweight/stubby suppressors that may give useful amount of suppression for a sporting rifle, are not in the same league as more robust/heavier units that are built for military or LE applications.   As stated earlier by others, a fair and equitable comparison test must start with correct testing equipment to give reliable and repeatable results.

The sonic crack alone can be in the upper 130 DB range, according to several sources. If all you have to contend with is the hot propellant gas, bigger (beyond a certain point) is not necessarily better, if it makes the weapon too bulky or cumbersome/heavy.
  

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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #51 - Sep 7th, 2014 at 11:46pm
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if you want quiet go Bow and arrow Smiley
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #52 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 12:33am
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I think , that in NZ , we donot have a manufacturer that makes strong robust suppressors for rifles that will be shot alot , ie like the Mil/LEO do with some of their rifles .
In short , the sniper & assault rifle class.

My cans for my AIs , all come from oversea's makers , as I see nothing in NZ that is anything like them , from BT , AU & ATEC ( old model ) , in the main these are all steel , all SS or a mix of Aluminium & SS , all these cans are inteneded for alot of shooting & abuse .

If you look at the late 80s , the US Navy , put out a request , for a suppressor for 308/300WM rifles , where the cost & weight where not to be main factors , the main factor was maximum sound suppression .
McMillan made the rifles for them , M89 , they made the actions/barrels/cans & stocks etc , the rifles had a 17.5 inche long barrel that had polygonal rifling , the cans where large & long , 1.65 inches in dia & 17.24 inches long , out of 100%  304SS , weighed 1.66kg ( 58.5 ozs ) .
It telescopes back over tha barrel by 6.6 inches , and as such puts the last 6.6 inches of barrel in tension , it used 14 fluted cone baffels .

Using 308 std ammo , it reduced the signuture by 32 dB ( A ) , & with subsonic by 34 dB ( A ) , same for 300WM , but peak sound held longer .
However the US Army decided that a 20 dB reduction was all they needed, so then the push was for only modest suppression in a smaller/lighter package than the M89 can .
In the early 90s , AWC brought out the excellent Thundertrap suppressor , it 1.6 inches in dia by 8.5 inches long & weighed 0.8kg , and had a dB reduction of 27dB which is 5 dB louder  than the M89 .
With out the can on the 308 std Fed did 168 dB & 136 dB with can on .

In large cans , ie 338LM , I like the US made AAC Titan QD , its 1.85 dia by 10 inches long at only 20oz , grade 5 & 9 Ti , and as its a US product its not available outside the US .
And the Canadian PGW Timberwolf , again a Ti model .

the AAC , uses a monolithic core thats EDM wire cut out , and a tube thats got a series of small holes drilled , and these are plug welded .

Later  Chris
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #53 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:05am
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ChrisF wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 12:33am:
I think , that in NZ , we donot have a manufacturer that makes strong robust suppressors for rifles that will be shot alot , ie like the Mil/LEO do with some of their rifles .
In short , the sniper & assault rifle class.

My cans for my AIs , all come from oversea's makers , as I see nothing in NZ that is anything like them , from BT , AU & ATEC ( old model ) , in the main these are all steel , all SS or a mix of Aluminium & SS , all these cans are inteneded for alot of shooting & abuse .

If you look at the late 80s , the US Navy , put out a request , for a suppressor for 308/300WM rifles , where the cost & weight where not to be main factors , the main factor was maximum sound suppression .
McMillan made the rifles for them , M89 , they made the actions/barrels/cans & stocks etc , the rifles had a 17.5 inche long barrel that had polygonal rifling , the cans where large & long , 1.65 inches in dia & 17.24 inches long , out of 100%  304SS , weighed 1.66kg ( 58.5 ozs ) .
It telescopes back over tha barrel by 6.6 inches , and as such puts the last 6.6 inches of barrel in tension , it used 14 fluted cone baffels .

Using 308 std ammo , it reduced the signuture by 32 dB ( A ) , & with subsonic by 34 dB ( A ) , same for 300WM , but peak sound held longer .
However the US Army decided that a 20 dB reduction was all they needed, so then the push was for only modest suppression in a smaller/lighter package than the M89 can .
In the early 90s , AWC brought out the excellent Thundertrap suppressor , it 1.6 inches in dia by 8.5 inches long & weighed 0.8kg , and had a dB reduction of 27dB which is 5 dB louder  than the M89 .
With out the can on the 308 std Fed did 168 dB & 136 dB with can on .

In large cans , ie 338LM , I like the US made AAC Titan QD , its 1.85 dia by 10 inches long at only 20oz , grade 5 & 9 Ti , and as its a US product its not available outside the US .
And the Canadian PGW Timberwolf , again a Ti model .

the AAC , uses a monolithic core thats EDM wire cut out , and a tube thats got a series of small holes drilled , and these are plug welded .

Later  Chris


you would lose that bet Smiley
ODL make cans designed for Military and LEO use eg full auto fire in .308 they're Titanium. they would be able to make one up for larger calibres but you'd be looking at $800 + at a rough guess.
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #54 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:18am
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ARE they available NOW ?

No disrespect , but OD have just started making stuff , also the strengh of sintered Ti powder , is remoured to be at the same strengh as a cast product , cast are not as strong as forged or solid metal .

Later  Chris
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #55 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 2:32am
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ChrisF wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:18am:
ARE they available NOW ?

No disrespect , but OD have just started making stuff , also the strengh of sintered Ti powder , is remoured to be at the same strengh as a cast product , cast are not as strong as forged or solid metal .

Later  Chris


The start of manufacturing is of no relevance to whether a product may or may not work.  Availability is an issue but that should be rectified over time.  Proving product durability should also occur over time, but the proving process only reflects reality, it doesn't change the physical attributes of a product.

If you are going to critique material strengths, you should at least do so appropriately.  Sintered Ti power may well produce a stronger result than solid Aluminium for example.  It is not sufficient to infer that a sintered product may not be as strong as all other forms of solid metal.

Your point probably is made on the basis that the designs are new and at this point we cannot know about long term durability, which is fair.  From what I have seen the work appears promising, and may well offer considerable advantage over traditionally manufactured options... we will have to wait and see....

  

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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #56 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 3:59am
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sidney wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 2:32am:
ChrisF wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:18am:
ARE they available NOW ?

No disrespect , but OD have just started making stuff , also the strengh of sintered Ti powder , is remoured to be at the same strengh as a cast product , cast are not as strong as forged or solid metal .

Later  Chris


The start of manufacturing is of no relevance to whether a product may or may not work.  Availability is an issue but that should be rectified over time.  Proving product durability should also occur over time, but the proving process only reflects reality, it doesn't change the physical attributes of a product.

If you are going to critique material strengths, you should at least do so appropriately.  Sintered Ti power may well produce a stronger result than solid Aluminium for example.  It is not sufficient to infer that a sintered product may not be as strong as all other forms of solid metal.

Your point probably is made on the basis that the designs are new and at this point we cannot know about long term durability, which is fair.  From what I have seen the work appears promising, and may well offer considerable advantage over traditionally manufactured options... we will have to wait and see....



I'll second that. I have an ODL unit on my AR and it's well suited to that application. The units are heat treated prior to finish which must increase tensile strength to some degree.
ODL will be the only one who's can shed some fact's based on actual use of this material method.
  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #57 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:10am
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Mathias wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 3:59am:
sidney wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 2:32am:
ChrisF wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 1:18am:
ARE they available NOW ?

No disrespect , but OD have just started making stuff , also the strengh of sintered Ti powder , is remoured to be at the same strengh as a cast product , cast are not as strong as forged or solid metal .

Later  Chris


The start of manufacturing is of no relevance to whether a product may or may not work.  Availability is an issue but that should be rectified over time.  Proving product durability should also occur over time, but the proving process only reflects reality, it doesn't change the physical attributes of a product.

If you are going to critique material strengths, you should at least do so appropriately.  Sintered Ti power may well produce a stronger result than solid Aluminium for example.  It is not sufficient to infer that a sintered product may not be as strong as all other forms of solid metal.

Your point probably is made on the basis that the designs are new and at this point we cannot know about long term durability, which is fair.  From what I have seen the work appears promising, and may well offer considerable advantage over traditionally manufactured options... we will have to wait and see....



I'll second that. I have an ODL unit on my AR and it's well suited to that application. The units are heat treated prior to finish which must increase tensile strength to some degree.
ODL will be the only one who's can shed some fact's based on actual use of this material method.


Chris No disrespect taken Smiley
as for is it available NOW well you can get it made here where similar suppressors are a prohibited export not to mention twice the price. Smiley
ODL i wouldnt describe as just started making stuff he's been making cans this way for 2 years and selling them for the past 18 months constantly improving them since he aquired the metering equipment to test them properly.
the Ti6Al4V Grade 5 alloy used to make the ODL cans is also used for aircraft frames and engine components, http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTP641
the alloy doesn't change anything as once its all printed / welded together it is then heat treated as a whole so structurally wont be different than if it was machined from a billet.

to each their own but if they withstand being subjected to full automatic fire without failing then i wouldn't be worried about what an individual semi could do to it.




  
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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #58 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:29am
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ChrisF wrote on Sep 8th, 2014 at 12:33am:
I think , that in NZ , we donot have a manufacturer that makes strong robust suppressors for rifles that will be shot alot , ie like the Mil/LEO do with some of their rifles .
In short , the sniper & assault rifle class.

My cans for my AIs , all come from oversea's makers , as I see nothing in NZ that is anything like them , from BT , AU & ATEC ( old model ) , in the main these are all steel , all SS or a mix of Aluminium & SS , all these cans are inteneded for alot of shooting & abuse .

If you look at the late 80s , the US Navy , put out a request , for a suppressor for 308/300WM rifles , where the cost & weight where not to be main factors , the main factor was maximum sound suppression .
McMillan made the rifles for them , M89 , they made the actions/barrels/cans & stocks etc , the rifles had a 17.5 inche long barrel that had polygonal rifling , the cans where large & long , 1.65 inches in dia & 17.24 inches long , out of 100%  304SS , weighed 1.66kg ( 58.5 ozs ) .
It telescopes back over tha barrel by 6.6 inches , and as such puts the last 6.6 inches of barrel in tension , it used 14 fluted cone baffels .

Using 308 std ammo , it reduced the signuture by 32 dB ( A ) , & with subsonic by 34 dB ( A ) , same for 300WM , but peak sound held longer .
However the US Army decided that a 20 dB reduction was all they needed, so then the push was for only modest suppression in a smaller/lighter package than the M89 can .
In the early 90s , AWC brought out the excellent Thundertrap suppressor , it 1.6 inches in dia by 8.5 inches long & weighed 0.8kg , and had a dB reduction of 27dB which is 5 dB louder  than the M89 .
With out the can on the 308 std Fed did 168 dB & 136 dB with can on .

In large cans , ie 338LM , I like the US made AAC Titan QD , its 1.85 dia by 10 inches long at only 20oz , grade 5 & 9 Ti , and as its a US product its not available outside the US .
And the Canadian PGW Timberwolf , again a Ti model .

the AAC , uses a monolithic core thats EDM wire cut out , and a tube thats got a series of small holes drilled , and these are plug welded .

Later  Chris



MAE make good strong suppressors did you forget about them ??
  

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Re: DPT vs Hardy vs Gunworks Suppressor Review
Reply #59 - Sep 8th, 2014 at 5:59am
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New OD products look good , all I know of Ti is its available in quite a wide range of grades , at the lower end only good for pistol cals , & the high end is suitable for rifle cals , the low grade is very cheap , high grade dear .

maybe a engineer can say what the actual strengh of printed Ti is ?

  
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