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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) DOC as a prostitute (Read 11806 times)
Tararua Hunter
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #72 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:32am
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cause they'd get lost man

I think your reading me wrong bro - recreate as you please; its when commerce infringes on freedom that I get upset


think you need to be more explit then, Cernunnos  Smiley

I think you underestimate trampers, to

i see more trampers "off the track" in middle of the mountains around here, . than i do hunters. hunters almost entirely go"off track", not far from the roadends. In fact, trampers, by deffinition, walk everywhere, dont fly, and probably are no more likely to get lost.

The perception of many trampers, is that hunters fly everywhere, take the kitchen sink, and leave a mess behind them.
They could also argue, that the helicopter circus ie "commerce")  during the roar etc, filling huts with bods that otherwise wouldnt be there,  is impinging on thier enjoyment.


it seems we dont like "commerce" when its impinging on our enjoyment, but dont mind using it when it suits.

Change is inevitable, and there is probably lots more commerce and other changes  ahead that hunters and others wont like.


  
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whereami
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #73 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:35am
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well said TH
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #74 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:46am
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Grin something like 80% of communication is not via words - makes the webby hard work; my only point (if there is one Huh) through this thread is the public land heirarchy
biodiversity
recreation



commercial activity.

truth be told I'm just an armed tramper for the most part anyways Embarrassed
  

Deer, I love and respect you very much. But I will kill you dead before this day ends.
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #75 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:53am
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through this thread is the public land heirarchy
biodiversity
recreation
commercial activity.

unfortunately, DOC, supported (or driven) by the government, have made it clear commercial (tourism), is not last, anymore.
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #76 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:56am
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the Conservation Act tells DoC what to do; not Al Morison, John Key or any QC's......
defend your rights fellows.
Smiley
  

Deer, I love and respect you very much. But I will kill you dead before this day ends.
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #77 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 4:03am
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the Conservation Act tells DoC what to do; not Al Morison, John Key or any QC's......
defend your rights fellows.

you better change the government, then. But would it be any better?
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #78 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 4:28am
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Lips Sealed ssshh PRISM. Grin
  

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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #79 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 5:51am
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whereami wrote on Jun 16th, 2013 at 6:51am:
Hunters think they own the wilderness of new Zealand.
They complain about the Maoris blocking access but if the hunters found some way to keep the public out of their hunting areas they would.


whereami wrote on Jun 16th, 2013 at 11:04pm:
I still stand by my comments.
I havnt read one positive comment from hunters on this site about trampers.
Most seem to have a low tolerance to other users , one need go no further than this site.


while your opinions on hunters not that tolerant of other users or positives about trampers maybe true to a point but its no different to drivers whinging about cyclists/horses on the road etc, we all use the backcountry for different purposes so there is going to be many differing views, and you are on a hunting forum maybe go to a tramping forum and start a thread on hunters and see how many positives trampers will post.
a walking/tramping track through some prime hunting ground would ruin it for hunters, and I guess a stinking deer at a hut would ruin it for trampers but hey a bit of give and take can go along way.... except with a grumpy fisherman Grin Grin.
as for the bikes on tracks it could work but I don't know too many considerate mountain bikers out there I don't think it would work very well on the popular tracks unless like an earlier post said about a winter season on the heaphy but definatly not all year round.
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #80 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 9:27am
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while your opinions on hunters not that tolerant of other users or positives about trampers maybe true to a point but its no different to drivers whinging about cyclists/horses on the road etc

I couldn't give a rip about what drivers whinging, I care about hunters and hunting as a way of life in this country.
I want to see hunting being held in high regard for my children and my children's children and beyond.
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #81 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 8:35pm
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whereami wrote on Jun 17th, 2013 at 9:27am:
I couldn't give a rip about what drivers whinging, I care about hunters and hunting as a way of life in this country.
I want to see hunting being held in high regard for my children and my children's children and beyond.


I think informed and aware people do hold hunting in high regard.  Problem is "incidents" are highlighted by media and positives not presented.  How many negative stories of tramping and bird watching have you seen on the national media?? 
We have a rich and proud history of hunting that builds with each generation.  However, we are a small group, same as trampers, and must hold each other to a high standard.  I don't see that happening in some cases and that is a larger societal problem that we are not responsible for.  Having said that we also cannot give up either.  Every time a hut is saved, tracks cleared, pests removed or kids informed we pave the way for a new generation, yet little credit is given.  While that is not what we do it for a bit of acknowledgement would be nice.

Give it a gun, rotor or propellor and they are all over it like blowwy's to a carcass
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #82 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 9:10pm
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HiTop wrote on Jun 17th, 2013 at 8:35pm:
I think informed and aware people do hold hunting in high regard.  Problem is "incidents" are highlighted by media and positives not presented.  How many negative stories of tramping and bird watching have you seen on the national media?? 
We have a rich and proud history of hunting that builds with each generation.  However, we are a small group, same as trampers, and must hold each other to a high standard.  I don't see that happening in some cases and that is a larger societal problem that we are not responsible for.  Having said that we also cannot give up either.  Every time a hut is saved, tracks cleared, pests removed or kids informed we pave the way for a new generation, yet little credit is given.  While that is not what we do it for a bit of acknowledgement would be nice.

Give it a gun, rotor or propellor and they are all over it like blowwy's to a carcass



that I feel is the key.
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #83 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 5:13am
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How many negative stories of tramping and bird watching have you seen on the national media??

Trampers dont carry firearms Smiley

trampers are probably more worried about DOCs commercialization than hunters.
They rely on  tracks and huts more, and are probably more reason to be anti mountain biking encroaching into more tracks

i personally dont have much problem with it, the back country has changed since I began  using it, and it will change more.

The biggest uissue for me, is DOC diverting funding away from the back country to do more and more fringe  development, some of which is debatabe

  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #84 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 6:23am
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Tararua Hunter wrote on Jun 18th, 2013 at 5:13am:
Trampers dont carry firearms Smiley

trampers are probably more worried about DOCs commercialization than hunters.
They rely on  tracks and huts more, and are probably more reason to be anti mountain biking encroaching into more tracks

i personally dont have much problem with it, the back country has changed since I began  using it, and it will change more.

The biggest uissue for me, is DOC diverting funding away from the back country to do more and more fringe  development, some of which is debatabe



is that to do with the amount of users or is it just an image thing?  so the public thinks that's where there money goes?
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #85 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 9:07am
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is that to do with the amount of users or is it just an image thing?  so the public thinks that's where there money goes?

I think its  a bit of better image, support from the public, and also encouraging new users, again to get them supporting conservation, but also because its good for people to become active.

Alongg the way, theres the idea that businesses will benifit, either directly, (guiding, etc) or indirectly (retailers, accomodation etc)

I dont have a problem with all that, except that theres a shift from what I think is  an important heritage   of new Zealanders. So while DOC is encouraging a lot more users, or different type, its impacting on the traditional back country - either though development of tracks etc, or reduced funding for those traditional places.

The result is a generation that will have no understanding ofr the "real" back country, or how to survive in it.

The book "Shelter from the Storm" by Rob brown, Shaun barnett etc, does a very good job of describing the different types of back country huts and their heritage value. One well known example is the good old forestry 6 bunk (S70) huts. Theres very few left in original condition, and now DOC is threatening to remove those that have "low use", unless the public take over.

If you want to enjoy a basic hut in the mountains, uncrowded (by trampers or flying  hunters)i have to go further and be selective in where I stay. usually its in a tent.

relying on huts for hunting isnt good, but they are enjoyable just because of their historic value, and are a dissapearing way of life that used to exist.

To some extent, hunters that fly to these places, often dont may not "really" experience these places IMO - the effort and difficulties in getting there, and therefore the real value of those huts, bridges and tracks.
trampers because they only walk, usually, probably have a better appreciation of those places, than those that fly.
may be a bit of a generalization, but its how i see it

Rant over Smiley
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #86 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 11:04am
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huts are better in the rain.
and tramper can sleep out on the porch when he snores too loud.
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #87 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 8:47pm
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whereami wrote on Jun 18th, 2013 at 11:04am:
huts are better in the rain.
and tramper can sleep out on the porch when he snores too loud.

+1
+++++++

Add to that if your fellow hunter shakes the iron on the walls with his snoring then he should be relocated carefully in the night, tip toeing over the noisy tramper, to a suitable location under a Beech tree till morning Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #88 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 12:35am
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I doubt there would be any cycling on the tracks I frequent in the Tararua's.  With the exception of the overdone tracks around Holdsworth, most are unsuitable.  They would be carrying the bikes more than riding them.

I've never encountered a cyclist on a track yet...

  
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Re: DOC as a prostitute
Reply #89 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 3:41am
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Apparently a mountain biker tried to ride the southern crossing - Shocked

Ive only seen bikes up the tracks around holdsworth.

wont surprize me if a track is redeveloped for bikes, somewhere in the tararuas
  
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