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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Not 1 of us I hope (Read 5520 times)
samiauto
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #15 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:28pm
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Charlie wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 3:13pm:
True, doesn't sound very cool, but it depends how late he was going to be. If he was going to be a day late then there would have been a search launched anyway which may have cost more than one chopper flying straight to him...?? Undecided
Recently had this debate with my better half, it's a tricky one. My personal thoughts were / are that plb's are for when you can't get yourself out i.e. injured but there's always a grey area  Roll Eyes


I often have thought about this very thing. The main reason I can imagine that I would be late back from a hunting trip would be because of flooded rivers. Mostly I hunt alone and often apart from my mrs knowing which river valley I am in and sometimes maybe a hut/general area, there would mostly be little evidence of where I am. Also a man can cover alot of country in a couple of days and I can only imagine how big a search area may have to be covered in some instances. So, say for instance I get stuck in an area and need to wait out a flooded river how long will it be before search and rescue come looking? Will they go and aseess the river the day after I don't turn up, put two and two together and wait to search when the river levels drop/wait for me to turn up. Or on that first day do they start flying around burning up chopper hours and deploying search parties looking for me? I imagine that most places I would be able to get to clear ground so I could be easily seen from the air but is it not easier to set off the EPIRB and narrow the search area down straight away? On the other hand I wouldn't want to be jeopardising any ones safety by making the search teams feel like they had to come and rescue someone that was in trouble, possibly in inclement/dangerous weather or whatever. Is there anyone on here that may be part of the SAR that has the answers?
  
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n777k
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #16 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 7:18pm
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What about if you get lost for an extended period of time and starting to lose your mind? Would you beam a chopper? Wink
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #17 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 7:26pm
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wobblyboot wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 4:56pm:
In the Stuff article it says he is a tramper from Nelson who has written books on the subject. Given his age of 67 that makes it fairly easy to work out who the plonker is.
On the debate of use, my view is that being overdue is not a reason to activate. Along with that your contact person should have a discussion with you regarding weather, rivers, routes etc so that if you are held up by a flooded river then not too much alarm is generated. After 24 hours this would be revised and police notified. This has worked for me when I was overdue saving a search, and has worked when I was the contact person for a couple of climbers overdue on Sabre. Police were notified and they waited another 24 hours before commencing search. That was based on what the weather was doing.


exactly , anything else is an open invitation for further misuse.
  

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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #18 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 7:29pm
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fletty wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:10pm:
Yip,he should pay.Chopper rides are starting to get pricey at $10,000 for a couple of hours of flying?


The BK charges around $3,500/hr for SAR jobs.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #19 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 7:55pm
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samiauto wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
So, say for instance I get stuck in an area and need to wait out a flooded river how long will it be before search and rescue come looking? Will they go and aseess the river the day after I don't turn up, put two and two together and wait to search when the river levels drop/wait for me to turn up.


We use a process for determining search urgency based on 11 risk factors - and the gut feeling of experienced SAR people (Police or LandSAR). These factors are:

  • Number of missing people
  • Age of missing person
  • Known medical conditions, illness or injury
  • Fitness of missing person
  • Experience of missing person
  • Reliability of missing person
  • Clothing of missing person
  • Equipment of missing person
  • Weather
  • Terrain hazards
  • Length of time missing


So, to pick somewhere local, if you're hunting in somewhere like Totara Flats, and the river is known to be up, then we'd probably give you a bit of time to account for a delay caused by the river. On the other hand, if you didn't have much experience and we'd assess it as more urgent because of the potential for someone to have done something risky/stupid.

samiauto wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
Or on that first day do they start flying around burning up chopper hours and deploying search parties looking for me?


Each of the risk factors above gets a certain weighting. The collective score of the weighting will put the potential search in one of three categories - emergency response, a measured response or evaluate and investigate.

Depending on the local SOPs, a measured response may involve sending in one team to check your hut/campsite, river levels etc, or it may involve asking the local helicopter operator to do a quick hut check (especially if they're working in the area).

samiauto wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
I imagine that most places I would be able to get to clear ground so I could be easily seen from the air but is it not easier to set off the EPIRB and narrow the search area down straight away?


If you think a search has started, you're much better to bang off the beacon to shorten the search that's already started - if you don't have a mountain radio, cellphone etc to use a more direct method. Obviously if you know you're just going to be late, getting a message out is really helpful. If you're heading down river to wait for the river to drop, a message in the hut log book saying what you're planning to do is a really good idea.

samiauto wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
On the other hand I wouldn't want to be jeopardising any ones safety by making the search teams feel like they had to come and rescue someone that was in trouble, possibly in inclement/dangerous weather or whatever.


Managing the risk of the response is up to the SAR people involved - the last thing you should do is worry about it, that's not your problem. I've walked teams in when choppers couldn't fly,  and scaled back or altered the response if conditions were dangerous to searches.  Besides, I've never met a SAR person - Police or LandSAR who has ever complained about being called out.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #20 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 8:06pm
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Story is he had not set is MY SKY for Shortland Street hey fare enough give him some slack  Smiley
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #21 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 8:34pm
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when i head bush i give the missus a worry time/date of when i should be home and a panic date/time of when something is wrong and deffinatly should be out by then. of course as we all know the weather and rivers dont always play the game but SAR and police will figure that one out.

1 thing that i dont understand is why do none of the new 406 beacons have remote activation? the old obsolete h.e.l.p beacons had this and would help narrow search time greatly and also locate if there has been a fatality.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #22 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 8:40pm
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gonehuntin wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 8:34pm:
1 thing that i dont understand is why do none of the new 406 beacons have remote activation? the old obsolete h.e.l.p beacons had this and would help narrow search time greatly and also locate if there has been a fatality.


Compact size is a big factor (you'd need the antenna always deployed), but the network needed to provide the coverage is an issue. COSPAS/SARSAT is basically a listening module slapped onto any one of a number of satellites. The two-way links that are used for things like SPOT, Yellow Brick and InReach need a dedicated comms satellite like the Iridium constellation. The end result is that a one-way SAR system has better coverage than a two-way system because of how easily its added to other things.

Give it a few years though, it's bound to change!
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #23 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 9:04pm
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yea apparently theres a compact one being developed/trialed now and will be a few years away thats capable of remote activation. the annoying thing is that our current plbs will mostly have 5-10yrs sepending on model left on them and they leave a fair dent in the bank account for a new one.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #24 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 11:25am
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Does the odd plonker balance out the much easier rescues for genuine cases. I'm sure it does.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #25 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 11:48am
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The odd plonker still needs castigating though. He is guilty of the sin of selfeshness.
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #26 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 12:41pm
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Does the odd plonker have a name? Initials?
  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #27 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 4:09pm
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Yep, Mr L.A. zykont

Bon wrote on Feb 9th, 2013 at 12:41pm:
Does the odd plonker have a name? Initials?

  
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #28 - Feb 9th, 2013 at 5:57pm
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Pengy wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
If he was not injured or in mortal danger then I dont think he should have used the Plb, but we dont know how his mind was working at the time.
As an aside, I am obviously in the wrong line of work if it actually cost $10, 000 to use the chopper for 2 and half hours.  Grin

A squirrel costs 2k per hr to hire with one pilot so a larger twin turbine machine worth several million with a crew will easy be 4k per hr.
  
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Chris Dore
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Re: Not 1 of us I hope
Reply #29 - Feb 10th, 2013 at 7:44am
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gonehuntin wrote on Feb 8th, 2013 at 8:34pm:
when i head bush i give the missus a worry time/date of when i should be home and a panic date/time of when something is wrong and deffinatly should be out by then. of course as we all know the weather and rivers dont always play the game but SAR and police will figure that one out.
.


Ditto. Beacons are for life or death situations only imo. Every person heading into the outdoors should be prepared to overnight if things turn for the worse. Intentions forms / panic times should be used, and simeone shuld be told where you are going.

My wife knows what area im going to each day, and i text her as soon as im out. If she doesnt get the text or see me by a certain time she will call two mates of mine who know the areas i frequent. If im not in contact by 10am the next morning they will decide on the action (ie, if im in fiordland they will have an idea if rivers blow and ive had to stay overnight. If im a day overdue from an area where i simply shouldn't be they will come out / contact emergency services.

Common sense basically.

However talking to a local SAR guy here he reckons this guy was just a tw*t.

  

Chris Dore
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