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Normal Topic 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info? (Read 3209 times)
7mm Magic
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7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Aug 15th, 2010 at 6:46am
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Hi all, anyone know the twist rate of a 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen? Its the more recent model with the front lockers.
Its my uncles rifle who lives in Taranaki and Iím putting together some loads with the A-Max 162 and would like 1:10 but according to KAC 1:11 is ok.
Checked the Shultz Larsen site but its pretty crap with no info at all.
  
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hindquarters
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #1 - Aug 15th, 2010 at 8:25pm
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Contact, Dave at Magnum Sports, 06-765-7248. He is a S&L buff and will be able to help!!!
  
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #2 - Aug 16th, 2010 at 12:09am
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Definately try Dave, I think he even has a 7x61. Otherwise my Rem Mag had a 1:10 twist (M97DL). Stablised the a-max fine even though it is a bi slow. All else fails put a tight patch down the barrel and measure it yourself using your cleaning rod.
  
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Jap
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #3 - Aug 16th, 2010 at 6:33am
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on a side note, what do you think of the cartridge and the shultz & larsen combo? Worked with an old boy who raved about it, reckons he could pump out a 162gr amax out of his S&L at close to 3100!
Anyone own one?
  
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7mm Magic
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #4 - Aug 16th, 2010 at 9:08am
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Thanks Guys, Work has got me fair on the run at the mo so day time phone calls are out.

Iím picking its 1:10 as well. If the rifle was here (Wellington) there would be no problem but itís not so Iíll continue loading as previously and hope for the best.

As for what I think of the cartridge well a Rem Mag makes more sense or if you want slightly more performance get a WSM.
  
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Ed Wennink
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #5 - Aug 16th, 2010 at 3:19pm
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What I can tell you about Schultz & Larsen is that the first 7x61 S&Hs were built in 1953.

The cartridge, designed by American Phil Sharpe, whose dream was of an 'Ackley-esque' 7mm magnum cartridge, with a straight case, sharp shoulder, and large powder capacity, was developed in partnership with Richard Hart.
It was destined to become the first modern commercial 7mm magnum!

Norma of Sweden agreed to produce factory ammunition, and Schultz & Larsen of Denmark the rifles to chamber it.
I cannot, however, tell you what the twist rate was... possibly 1-12"

The first rifles, based on the Danish Madsen 54 action, were built on the massive 54J action...

so solid was this action, that when Roy Weatherby designed his now discontinued .378Wby magnum, he initially built it on this action.

In fact, the now famous Mark V Weatherby incorporates many of the features of this action, as do the SAUER 200 and 202 rifles.
[JP Sauer & Sohn also manufactured rifles of high quality for Weatherby.]

The rifle was re-designed for the American market in 1960, as the model 60, which I believe, had a 1-10" twist, as does the later model 65.

For any of the 7mmMagnums, 1-9.25" is now the standard twist, with a min. 24" bbl. reqd. to optimize velocities...

HTH
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2010 at 1:51am by Ed Wennink »  

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hindquarters
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #6 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 7:13am
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What model S&L are you loading for, as some take the 7x61 Sharp & Hart and others take the 7x61 Super.
  
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7mm Magic
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #7 - Aug 17th, 2010 at 11:20am
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Thanks ED, excelent info there.

Its a 7 x 61 S&H.

Cheers
  
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Ed Wennink
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #8 - Aug 18th, 2010 at 1:13am
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hindquarters wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 7:13am:
What model S&L are you loading for, as some take the 7x61 Sharp & Hart and others take the 7x61 Super.


The 7x61 'Super' has the same external dimensions as the 7x61 S&H...
Norma redesigned the 7x61S&H internally only, to try to stay competitive with the 7mmRemMag and the 7mmWby Mag, which were starting to cut into 7x61 sales, with their higher velocities...

The two cartridges are interchangeable, but the loading data for the 'super' cannot be used for the S&H.
  

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7mm Magic
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #9 - Aug 19th, 2010 at 8:58am
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Ed Wennink wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 1:13am:
hindquarters wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 7:13am:
What model S&L are you loading for, as some take the 7x61 Sharp & Hart and others take the 7x61 Super.


The 7x61 'Super' has the same external dimensions as the 7x61 S&H...
Norma redesigned the 7x61S&H internally only, to try to stay competitive with the 7mmRemMag and the 7mmWby Mag, which were starting to cut into 7x61 sales, with their higher velocities...

The two cartridges are interchangeable, but the loading data for the 'super' cannot be used for the S&H.


Holly crap ED you just alerted me to potential disaster THANKS!! Fortunatly the load data I used was for a SUPER so no need to pull things apart.

Cheers.
  
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7mm Magic
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #10 - Aug 19th, 2010 at 9:03am
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Actually ED, since you have a handle on this cartridge Iíll run the load past you for your comment.
CCI br primer
68.0 gn Reloader 25
162 A-Max
  
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Ed Wennink
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #11 - Aug 20th, 2010 at 6:46am
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Quote:
Ed Wennink wrote on Aug 18th, 2010 at 1:13am:
hindquarters wrote on Aug 17th, 2010 at 7:13am:
What model S&L are you loading for, as some take the 7x61 Sharp & Hart and others take the 7x61 Super.


The 7x61 'Super' has the same external dimensions as the 7x61 S&H...
Norma redesigned the 7x61S&H internally only, to try to stay competitive with the 7mmRemMag and the 7mmWby Mag, which were starting to cut into 7x61 sales, with their higher velocities...

The two cartridges are interchangeable, but the loading data for the 'super' cannot be used for the S&H.


Holly crap ED you just alerted me to potential disaster THANKS!! Fortunatly the load data I used was for a SUPER so no need to pull things apart.

Cheers.


Mate, the "Super" is the later model that Norma upped the ante on a bit, so beware if you have already started with close to maximum loads for the Super...

If you have, I'd suggest you pull them and reduce the load by 5%... then work up a load to suit your rifle using care, and watching for the usual pressure signs such as bolt hard to open, flattened primers, cratered primers and expanded case heads...

I do not have any comparable loading data available for the two cases, esp with Rl.25...

I can only tell that the burn rate of Rl.25 is about the same as Retumbo, AR2225 or Vihtavuori 24N29...

HTH!
  

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'The greatest wealth is to live content with little'
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #12 - Aug 23rd, 2010 at 9:22pm
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I had a 7x61S&H on a howa action for a while; another forum member has it now. Nice round, I was getting ~3050fps with 60gr AR2209 from the A-Max. New brass could be got from C.R.Pain. Much less hassle than forming brass from 7mm RemMag...
  
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #13 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:54pm
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I have a 1961 S&L M65DL, and it has 1:12 twist, but I have seen a 1:10 twist on the same model rifle. I understand the later model  M68 had 1:10, so I would be very surprised if your barrel has slower twist than 1:10

Phil Sharpe tested the M60 with various twists, when he developed the cartridge/rifle. He got good accuracy at long range with 1:12 and 154gr projectiles, and he probably did not   demand accuracy at 1200 yards, like todays superstars. I think 1:10 with 154gr to 160gr will turn out to be more than good enough for very long range hunting. This rifle is famous for accuracy. I am about to do some tests, so I will report back in a couple of months.
  
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Re: 7 x 61 Shultz Larsen info?
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 9:19am
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Interesting thread..there is/was one on trade me built on a Parker hale action for cheap.
  
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