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270moss
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hand winches?
Jul 15th, 2010 at 9:01pm
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are they worth having?
ideally a good bull bar winch would be the go - but a bit rich for me at the moment.
i have nearly been stuck once and would have had a grumpy days walk out Angry
so was woundering about these.
obviously they don't have a heap of cable but one of these and a big strop would eventually get you out trouble ??- better than walking out Embarrassed
  

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tweake
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #1 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 9:24pm
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depends on which hand winch you mean.

the tirfor style ones, often come with 20m wire. you can make a longer one if you want or attach a strop.
they are just bulky to store in a vehicle and obviously can be tiring to use.
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #2 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 9:37pm
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Just get one of them 12 volt electric buggers and use it as you would a hand winch (stroped to your tow hook), so you can use it on the back or the front or for hanging animals up at camp. Get an ok one for around 200 bucks. There not going to pull you up the side of a mountain but theyl get you out of a hole or bog.
  

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #3 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 12:37pm
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if its the ones i think you mean, they are only rated for 150-200kg or so. certainly won't pull you out of a hole let alone a bog. you would have to use pulleys just to pull a vehicle on the flat.

most of the electric hand winches are just the usual vehicle mounted electric winch, mounted on a cradle so you can move it around. the electric leads can be an issue with them.
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #4 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 12:44pm
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Please Learn all about winches and winching, they can be leathel in the wrong hands.

Loads on turning blocks caught a mate out, only pulling about 110kg longline backbone thru a turning block with no more than a 30 degree angle, when the block securing shackle failed it struck him with over 57kgs of energy. Cry remember if the angle increases so does the load, ie  90 deg = nearly 1 and a half  times,  180  degree equals double the load.

also a good rule we used with turnbuckles was twice the size of the wire ie. screws twice the size of the wire
          opening between the jaws twice the size of the wire
         Clevis pin twice the size of the wire.
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #5 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 1:14pm
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Mate, I wouldnt waste my time with a electric winch unless its rated for 7500lb plus. If you are stuck to the point of needing a winch, you will need a good one! If not, a bit of spade work/rocks and logs will help you more. A hand winch is OK if its rated, but hard work. Learn how to use them properly, as if you're wallowing around in rain, mud and sleet you don't want to have to be searching through a users manual!

I have a proper winch on my truck, and its saved my arse/legs a few times, BUT the only time I have used it is when I have pushed the boundaries KNOWING that if I get stuck I can winch myself out. If that makes sense  Undecided

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Please Learn all about winches and winching, they can be leathel in the wrong hands.


+1 Wire ropes under stress + failing shackles etc = damage!

Bit off topic, but another important thing to remember if snatching/towing a vehicle out of a sticky situation, DO NOT use the tow ball as a towing/snatching point. They will snap off and become a lethal projectile. Seen it happen and its scary  Shocked Use a properly designed/rated towing hook/loop.
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #6 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 5:22pm
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JoshC wrote on Jul 16th, 2010 at 1:14pm:
Mate, I wouldnt waste my time with a electric winch unless its rated for 7500lb plus. If you are stuck to the point of needing a winch, you will need a good one! If not, a bit of spade work/rocks and logs will help you more. A hand winch is OK if its rated, but hard work. Learn how to use them properly, as if you're wallowing around in rain, mud and sleet you don't want to have to be searching through a users manual!

I have a proper winch on my truck, and its saved my arse/legs a few times, BUT the only time I have used it is when I have pushed the boundaries KNOWING that if I get stuck I can winch myself out. If that makes sense  Undecided

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Please Learn all about winches and winching, they can be leathel in the wrong hands.


+1 Wire ropes under stress + failing shackles etc = damage!

Bit off topic, but another important thing to remember if snatching/towing a vehicle out of a sticky situation, DO NOT use the tow ball as a towing/snatching point. They will snap off and become a lethal projectile. Seen it happen and its scary  Shocked Use a properly designed/rated towing hook/loop.


Amen. dont be like my grand father and say ill only bloodly tow off the tow ball becasue its rated. I just cringe and stand well away
  

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #7 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 6:14pm
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towballs are only designed for towing a rolling load not a stuck load.
also towing is one thing (ie with chain) but snatching (rope or strops) is a different story. the stretch enables a much larger force to be put on it.
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #8 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 6:37pm
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Try telling that to a 65 year old. the must know it all. after all they are older Grin
  

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #9 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 8:32pm
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get a good tirfor, two mates have the 2500 kg ones and i have the 5000 kg one, they get us out of all kinds of shit. the good thing is you can have it in your ute one day a put it in your mates ute the next if you whant. Wink
  
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270moss
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #10 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 8:50pm
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wow Shocked

thanks for all of the information - this is why i like this forum, being able to learn from others - thankyou
when i almost got stuck it would have been alot of the rest of my day getting out ... but with a winch and a strop i think i would've got out (a greasy grassy slope).
dont get me wrong i am and can admit i'm inexperienced(but learning)and i am slowly improving my gear.
i have just got a LSD diff head for my surf - which i suspect had quite alot to do with me getting wheel spin ( r/r and l/f) rather than drive on the lush grass and from here - maybe i will go back to the slope where it happened once the diff head is in and try again - but with another support vehicle! - sounds like fun anyway Wink
i'll keep an eye open for a winch and google things before purchase  Wink
unless anyone has one for sale or can recommend a good brand - ie: tirfor
also i dont intend to be burried up to the axles in mud - but i suppose unless your doing a 4wd winch challenge nobody does Grin
  

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #11 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 9:00pm
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toyota lsd are fairly soft. do an diff oil change, surprising how well that can help (remember to use LSD oil).

if your only doing light 4x4ing (ie paddocks etc) you might want to consider an emergency winch. they are wire strainer type. can't hold bugger all and you can't winch up hill with one. but they are fairly small and have their uses.

don't forget with winches that you still need to pull from something and enough wire/chain/strap to reach it.
  
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270moss
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i have cancelled easter!

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #12 - Jul 16th, 2010 at 9:20pm
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tweake wrote on Jul 16th, 2010 at 9:00pm:
toyota lsd are fairly soft. do an diff oil change, surprising how well that can help (remember to use LSD oil).

if your only doing light 4x4ing (ie paddocks etc) you might want to consider an emergency winch. they are wire strainer type. can't hold bugger all and you can't winch up hill with one. but they are fairly small and have their uses.

don't forget with winches that you still need to pull from something and enough wire/chain/strap to reach it.


cheers tweak , lsd oil shouldn't be a problem Wink (T w/shop foreman)... i have just had the lsd carrier apart and shimmed it up to spec.the clutch packs were as new and just a little shimming required - the ratio was differant but the price was right so i got it off a mate and will use my origonal crown wheel onto the carrier and pop it into my origonal diff housing with new side bearings (pinion is ok).
it is the vehicle that the wife usually drives unless i'm going hunting so i wont be going to overboard with it...but i do need some recovery gear to take with me just incase Wink
  

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Re: hand winches?
Reply #13 - Jul 17th, 2010 at 10:21am
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sweet as. next step, front hubs and a locker for the front diff Cool
  
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Re: hand winches?
Reply #14 - Sep 2nd, 2010 at 9:11pm
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Yeah, bloody handy.

I installed a 12000lb winch in the front of my ute and have never used it (but will be glad when I do).

Prior to that I had a several ton hand winch I kept in the back.
Strangely enough I've got a huge amount of use out of that.

Winching heavy equipment up onto the back of the ute (got some VERY solid well braced rollbars) when I've been by myself.
Winching stuck "light" equipment out of mud/ditches when there was no room to get the ute in there and use the front-bumper winch.

In fact there have been 2 definite times I would have been totally "pack up and go home" screwed without the handwinch.

Both are good purchases, ... the handwinch has turned out to be more versatile than I thought.
  
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