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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) best night scope (Read 10095 times)
Visiting Yank
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Thanks, MassiveAttack
Reply #60 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 2:31am
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I hadn't thought about which glass was etched, but obviously it's gotta be another piece or you could never adjust it.  For two scopes at my price point, I'll go with the wire now.  But, I am sure that Zeiss makes a lovely scope.
  
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Reply #61 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 3:20am
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Visiting Yank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 2:31am:
I hadn't thought about which glass was etched, but obviously it's gotta be another piece or you could never adjust it.  For two scopes at my price point, I'll go with the wire now.  But, I am sure that Zeiss makes a lovely scope.


No wucking furries.  Everything I read about the Zeiss is good through (except Norway's one fogging up when he came to NZ).  I think coating make more difference than one extra bit of glass.

Which one did you end up deciding on?
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
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Re: best night scope
Reply #62 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 5:17am
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primer wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:54pm:
No real purpose for spending on a low light scope with a light.
Waste of moolah.

What Im trying to get across is something practical.
Take an old stag in a place that gets hunting pressure. Hes not going to be waiting after he sees some light flashing around.
To tell if said cunning stag is any good requires magnification beyond 4x


You still need good light transmission when using a spot,  because one has only seconds to acquire the target, and head shoot it. Often all that can be seen with the eye is the red glow of an eye. Usefull is then, to be able to see a full outline of the head  using only the edge of the spot.  The spot can only be used to locate the quarry, directly spotlighting it results in said furry animal bolting 50% of the time. They don’t like have a bright light in the eye just like us. Don’t tell me I should positively identify my target please, we are talking rabbit and hare in Tussock at under 40 meters distance, and some other small furry creatures. No Kiwis around here.  Cheesy
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #63 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 5:44am
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Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 6:46pm:
[quote author=theoddfellows link=1266451505/45#51 date=1266827905]
When night shooting the extra leeway regards head/eye position from a larger exit pupil is often helpful. You are looking at targets that can be hard to see and may be directly above you - ie a possum - where your natural eye position is completely different and need to quickly find the target. Each to their own.


A generous eye box, both in the left/right, up/down plane and forwards and backwards is highly underrated imho.  Most people just go for glass quality.  Thats important but so is being able to throw the rifle to your shoulder, standing or prone, wearing thin or thick clothing, wearing pack straps or not and instantly being able to see the scope picture.

When I went scope shopping last I looked at  burris FF II and leupold vx1.  I was expecting to buy the burris because all the advice I had read on here said the glass was better.  Thats true but holding them side by side it was obvious that the eye box on the leupold was much much more larger.  I ended up buying both a second hand 4 and 6 power for the same money as the vx I 3-9.
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
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Re: best night scope
Reply #64 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 5:52am
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headcase wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 5:17am:
primer wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:54pm:
No real purpose for spending on a low light scope with a light.
Waste of moolah.

What Im trying to get across is something practical.
Take an old stag in a place that gets hunting pressure. Hes not going to be waiting after he sees some light flashing around.
To tell if said cunning stag is any good requires magnification beyond 4x


You still need good light transmission when using a spot,  because one has only seconds to acquire the target, and head shoot it. Often all that can be seen with the eye is the red glow of an eye. Usefull is then, to be able to see a full outline of the head  using only the edge of the spot.  The spot can only be used to locate the quarry, directly spotlighting it results in said furry animal bolting 50% of the time. They don’t like have a bright light in the eye just like us. Don’t tell me I should positively identify my target please, we are talking rabbit and hare in Tussock at under 40 meters distance, and other some other small furry creatures. No Kiwis around here.  Cheesy


I would agree with that.  The difference in the amount of light when in daylight vs the amount of light from a spotlight is massive.  It doesn't look that much because your eye adjusts.  Shining something light a light force around and it looks like daylight but it's just an illusion because your eye has adjusted.

Then you take losses due to reflection into account.  90% of the full 30,000 lumens of daylight is a lot more than 90% of 250 lumens from a led torch.  The remaining 27,000 lumens of daylight is more than enough to see clearly by whereas the 225 remaining lumens of a led torch may not be.

Many people who compare scopes in shops looking outside into full daylight have been fooled by that.  Your better off trying to read some text in a dark corner of a shop.

I spotlighted for years with a old shitter 4x on my .22 when upgraded to a luepold M8 4x (sill nothing flash in terms of glass).  The difference is nothing short of astounding.

I know everyone says that bright lights make game run away but most of my experience with rabbits shows that they get blinded and run in a random direction, often straight towards you.
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
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Re: best night scope
Reply #65 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 7:40am
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Yea ok even the end of the beam could be helped by a good scope but then why not just get a stronger torch....and then there's still an end of the beam...so can see the point Smiley
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #66 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 8:19am
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Wow, this has actually turned into a useful discussion.  Why can't they all be like this.  Some really useful points here.
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #67 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 8:51am
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MassiveAttack wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 5:44am:
Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 6:46pm:
[quote author=theoddfellows link=1266451505/45#51 date=1266827905]
When night shooting the extra leeway regards head/eye position from a larger exit pupil is often helpful. You are looking at targets that can be hard to see and may be directly above you - ie a possum - where your natural eye position is completely different and need to quickly find the target. Each to their own.


A generous eye box, both in the left/right, up/down plane and forwards and backwards is highly underrated imho.  Most people just go for glass quality.  Thats important but so is being able to throw the rifle to your shoulder, standing or prone, wearing thin or thick clothing, wearing pack straps or not and instantly being able to see the scope picture.

When I went scope shopping last I looked at  burris FF II and leupold vx1.  I was expecting to buy the burris because all the advice I had read on here said the glass was better.  Thats true but holding them side by side it was obvious that the eye box on the leupold was much much more larger.  I ended up buying both a second hand 4 and 6 power for the same money as the vx I 3-9.


First time I’ve heard that terminology. Interesting though. It
defines a scopes 3 dimensional visual capabilities.

length of eye relief x left/right, up/down plane = eyebox Grin

PS I agree with this statement 100%

"Most people just go for glass quality.  Thats important but so is being able to throw the rifle to your shoulder, standing or prone, wearing thin or thick clothing, wearing pack straps or not and instantly being able to see the scope picture."
(thanks Muz 257)
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #68 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 9:01am
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I've tried quite a few over the years from fixed 4x40 to high end quality Euro Varipowers. I scored a Zeiss 2.5-10x48 Diavari *T - with German #4 reticule and it'll see me out. It left my Loopy and Burris for dead. The next best was my Khales 6x42 ZF 69 ex Army Sniper Scope (now retired to the spares shelf). Those good Euro scopes are just soooo clear to look through. Cool
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #69 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:06am
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The new leupold FX/VX3 coatings are starting to approach the zeiss conquest in terms of quality.  Miles ahead of the FXI.  Still not a scratch on the top end german or nightforce glass though.

I haven't looked though much top end glass but at the tahr show they has some nikkon night eater and zeiss scopes on blank rifle stocks.  Absolutely no comparison.

My fx3 came with the long range duplex reticle which is a wide duplex with two holdover dots.  I haven't used it enough to decide yet but I find the two dots a little distracting as they are thicker than the crosshairs.  The only way to get a german no 3 into it is to send it to the custom shop.  I might do that at some stage.

German no 3 is better than the heavy duplex as the outside posts are thicker and the cross hairs are thinner.  No real disadvantage as far as I can see.

If I had my time again with the factory choices I think I would just get the standard duplex.

This is the leupold blurb on eyebox
http://www.leupold.com/lightbox/features/generous-eyebox/
  

This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine.  Without my rifle I am useless, without me it is useless.
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Re: best night scope
Reply #70 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 6:52pm
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I sent an email to Zeiss asking them about the transmission difference in their T coatings.
Surpisingly sent back a practical- the human eye won't be able to pick up the difference..which stacks up since its getting up in small precentages. From 90 to 95% yes but less its getting harder.
Though at night if trying to count tines I think maybe yes can tell the difference.
There is plenty of contrast in them and the objects stand out more. Can remember the first time I saw a deer with one and it wasn't that far away but stood out so clearly I droped down the rifle thinking I'd see it by eye and it looked blank..nothing there. So somethings working well.
  
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