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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) best night scope (Read 12127 times)
Gerry Atric
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Re: best night scope
Reply #45 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:47am
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headcase wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 8:24am:
Gerry Atric wrote on Feb 21st, 2010 at 10:58pm:
Hello Headcase,

Don´t know the availability of used european scopes in N.Z. but after my latest sessions with a couple of friends shooting Hare and Fox in overcast moonlight conditions - I have seen the light Shocked

All european glass beat my illuminated Leupold VXIII, hands down. (actually, my Burris Black Diamond at 6x was better than the Leupy)
It was a mixed bunch of scopes involved, new German/Austrian variable scopes and some old 4x, 6x and 8x. My absolute favourite (being a cheap bastard) was a Zeiss 6x42 German No 4, that in my eyes had the best glass/reticle combination (of the affordable scopes)

An old german or a new semi-german would do the trick Wink
Good luck at the optician....

Gerry Atrick
 


Were you also using a spot or just the moonlight?


Told you I was a cheap bastard - only the moonlight reflecting the snow! I´m also a law-abiding character, as spot-lighting is forbidden in this Mekka of hunting-laws (Sweden)

Gerry Atric
  
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headcase
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Re: best night scope
Reply #46 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:35am
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Theres nothing wrong with moonlight and snow. Weve spotted deer at 200m with the  eyes, on snow with full moon. Easy as.. Great way to hunt
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #47 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:05pm
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What you need for the "ideal" scope is a big IOR (40mm tube) with a lit reticle.  40mm tube will let in lots of light.........

http://www.valdada.com/product/7799bd3d-2c65-48aa-add0-7e3fce3894af.aspx

Don't say I don't help you out.......


Unfortunately poor advice. Large tube doesnt allow more light. It only allows greater errector tube movement.

A larger objective will allow more light. This combined with appropriate power to give larger exit pupil for easy target aquisition/head positioning would be your best bet. Add to that a reticle that is easily seen or a lit reticle which has a low illumination to reduce glare.
  

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Question for MassiveAttack
Reply #48 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 4:10pm
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When you mentioned that varipower and AO add more glass, reducing transmission, did you also say that etched glass reticles add another layer of glass?

Thanks for all the info.
  
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MassiveAttack
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Re: best night scope
Reply #49 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 4:48pm
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Thats how I understand it.  The reticle is etched onto another piece of glass where as a wire reticle doesn't have that piece of glass.  Leupold use platinum wire.  At one stage older scopes used spider silk.

Wire reticles are limited in their shape.  You can't have just a dot in the middle for example as there is nothing to support it.  Most of the modern fancy ballistic plex la de da reticles are etched for that reason as it's hard to support the horizontal lines that are the holdover points.  I think mil dot type reticles can be wire as they just attach dots to the wire.

I think there might even be a third method where metal is deposited onto the glass.

One easy way to tell is to look into the scope with light behind you.  If it's a wire one the light will reflect off the wire giving it a gold tint.  This can actually be useful in low light, sort of like a natural illuminated reticle (assuming you have a light source).

Something like the leupold Boon and Crocket reticle has to be etched based on the amount of unsupported lines it has.

When I got my Leupold FX3 6.42 LR scope I asked the nice lady from Leupold if it was etched (it has two holdover dots so I though it might be).  She said yes but it still turns gold with the light behind it so that can't be right.  Maybe it's the electro deposited method where metal is deposited onto glass (as opposed to a line being etched onto glass).  It might even be a combination of the two as I don't think the middle goes gold with light behind it.  No info on the leupold site that I can find.

How much difference it all makes is a matter of opinion.  Zeiss scopes are all etched and as you can see from this thread they are the recommended scope for night hunting.  Most of the light loss by reflection happens on the outside lenses which is why in cheaper scopes they are the only ones that are coated.

With any lens (vari power / side focus AO) I believe it's a minimum of two lenses as just adding one would make the image upside down.

Side focus AO has extra lens elements.  Regular AO just moves the existing objective lens.

There is some useful info on the wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticle
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #50 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 4:59pm
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headcase wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:35am:
Theres nothing wrong with moonlight and snow. Weve spotted deer at 200m with the  eyes, on snow with full moon. Easy as.. Great way to hunt

And 2ks away moon walking across the snow thru the binos. Shocked
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #51 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:38pm
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Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:05pm:
Quote:
What you need for the "ideal" scope is a big IOR (40mm tube) with a lit reticle.  40mm tube will let in lots of light.........

http://www.valdada.com/product/7799bd3d-2c65-48aa-add0-7e3fce3894af.aspx

Don't say I don't help you out.......


Unfortunately poor advice. Large tube doesnt allow more light. It only allows greater errector tube movement.

A larger objective will allow more light. This combined with appropriate power to give larger exit pupil for easy target aquisition/head positioning would be your best bet. Add to that a reticle that is easily seen or a lit reticle which has a low illumination to reduce glare.


Unfortunately followed by further poor advice, big objectives are only required for high power scopes.  Buying a big objective scope with small power - it's just burning money.
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #52 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:02pm
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It's not quite that black and white.  It's true that the average human eye can only take in 7mm of light etc.

But, if you have more than that, say 9mm of exit pupil then you have a bit more leeway on exactly where you place your eye i.e. it can be 2mm off to one side and you will still get the full 7mm into your eye.

It's basically the left and right version of a generous eye box.
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #53 - Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:14pm
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MassiveAttack wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 10:02pm:
It's not quite that black and white.  It's true that the average human eye can only take in 7mm of light etc.

But, if you have more than that, say 9mm of exit pupil then you have a bit more leeway on exactly where you place your eye i.e. it can be 2mm off to one side and you will still get the full 7mm into your eye.

It's basically the left and right version of a generous eye box.


True enough, I was just trying to state it clearly in amongest all the 'nah mate, you need a 4*56' crap.  The point is, you're paying for that glass that you not necessarily using.  In my own scope I purchased recently the 40mm and 50mm objective versions were a grand apart in price (windage and elevation knobs were different which accounted for some of that), so at 14 x magnification on the 40mm version, I have an exit pupil of 3mm (rounded up), verses a exit pupil of 3.6mm, however at it's lowest setting of 4.5* (which I would use for night shooting) the same numbers are 9mm (rounded) and 11mm, both of which are larger than my eye can actually use, end result, I saved myself a grand and got a scope I could utilise.

Recommendation, get a Zeiss 4*32, with an exit pupil of 8mm, which is probably 3mm more than your eyes (this diminsions as we age) can acutally utilise.  And enjoy that feeling of not throwing your money away.
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #54 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 7:46am
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theoddfellows wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:38pm:
Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:05pm:
Quote:
What you need for the "ideal" scope is a big IOR (40mm tube) with a lit reticle.  40mm tube will let in lots of light.........

http://www.valdada.com/product/7799bd3d-2c65-48aa-add0-7e3fce3894af.aspx

Don't say I don't help you out.......


Unfortunately poor advice. Large tube doesnt allow more light. It only allows greater errector tube movement.

A larger objective will allow more light. This combined with appropriate power to give larger exit pupil for easy target aquisition/head positioning would be your best bet. Add to that a reticle that is easily seen or a lit reticle which has a low illumination to reduce glare.


Unfortunately followed by further poor advice, big objectives are only required for high power scopes.  Buying a big objective scope with small power - it's just burning money.  


When night shooting the extra leeway regards head/eye position from a larger exit pupil is often helpful. You are looking at targets that can be hard to see and may be directly above you - ie a possum - where your natural eye position is completely different and need to quickly find the target. Each to their own.
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #55 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 9:35am
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Digit wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 7:46am:
theoddfellows wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:38pm:
Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:05pm:
Quote:
What you need for the "ideal" scope is a big IOR (40mm tube) with a lit reticle.  40mm tube will let in lots of light.........

http://www.valdada.com/product/7799bd3d-2c65-48aa-add0-7e3fce3894af.aspx

Don't say I don't help you out.......


Unfortunately poor advice. Large tube doesnt allow more light. It only allows greater errector tube movement.

A larger objective will allow more light. This combined with appropriate power to give larger exit pupil for easy target aquisition/head positioning would be your best bet. Add to that a reticle that is easily seen or a lit reticle which has a low illumination to reduce glare.


Unfortunately followed by further poor advice, big objectives are only required for high power scopes.  Buying a big objective scope with small power - it's just burning money.  


When night shooting the extra leeway regards head/eye position from a larger exit pupil is often helpful. You are looking at targets that can be hard to see and may be directly above you - ie a possum - where your natural eye position is completely different and need to quickly find the target. Each to their own.


Thats a good point, and when headshots mean money, and every non kill, because you took to long to get a bead on the bunnie, is costing you money, time, frustration and adding grey hairs,  spending the extra buck is an investment.  Wink
  

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Re: best night scope
Reply #56 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:04am
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Then start looking at the illuminated.
Usually hunting lowlight scopes has a thick reticle but illuminated is better.
Though the cost goes up more.

Not trying to argue against physics(eye dillation and exit pupil aside) but if offered the fixed 4x32 vs 8x56 for lowlight hunting the 8x56's are used specifically for that.
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #57 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:35am
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Nightforce NXS 8-32x56 + LED Lenser P14 in a clamp worked just fine up to 75m.

Downgraded to NXS 2.5-10x32 + same P14 torch.
Works just fine.
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #58 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 10:54am
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No real purpose for spending on a low light scope with a light.
Waste of moolah.

What Im trying to get across is something practical.
Take an old stag in a place that gets hunting pressure. Hes not going to be waiting after he sees some light flashing around.
To tell if said cunning stag is any good requires magnification beyond 4x
  
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Re: best night scope
Reply #59 - Feb 23rd, 2010 at 1:00pm
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headcase wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 9:35am:
Digit wrote on Feb 23rd, 2010 at 7:46am:
theoddfellows wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 9:38pm:
Digit wrote on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 12:05pm:
Quote:
What you need for the "ideal" scope is a big IOR (40mm tube) with a lit reticle.  40mm tube will let in lots of light.........

http://www.valdada.com/product/7799bd3d-2c65-48aa-add0-7e3fce3894af.aspx

Don't say I don't help you out.......


Unfortunately poor advice. Large tube doesnt allow more light. It only allows greater errector tube movement.

A larger objective will allow more light. This combined with appropriate power to give larger exit pupil for easy target aquisition/head positioning would be your best bet. Add to that a reticle that is easily seen or a lit reticle which has a low illumination to reduce glare.


Unfortunately followed by further poor advice, big objectives are only required for high power scopes.  Buying a big objective scope with small power - it's just burning money.  


When night shooting the extra leeway regards head/eye position from a larger exit pupil is often helpful. You are looking at targets that can be hard to see and may be directly above you - ie a possum - where your natural eye position is completely different and need to quickly find the target. Each to their own.


Thats a good point, and when headshots mean money, and every non kill, because you took to long to get a bead on the bunnie, is costing you money, time, frustration and adding grey hairs,  spending the extra buck is an investment.  Wink

Then stop spending money,problem solved Grin Grin
  

Shot a few deer,caugth some big trout and salmon
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