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Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Sub's or Super's? (Read 5378 times)
Kickstart
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2010 at 7:17pm
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One of rabbits main warning signal is through the ground... ever heard that pat pat pat pat?

They have sensitive hairs on their feet, and feel ground vibrations.  Any round hitting the ground is massive to them, whereas centrefire @ rabbit ranges are usually a little high... and dont tap the ground.
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 12:08am
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I dont use a can on my CF rifles and often shot with a hornet or 22-250 on the same farm as I did with the 22rf with  subs so the distances were the same and it still had that effect ,
I once used my hornet to do a 75 meter head shot on a rabbit that was touching noses with another rabbit  and the second rabbit just sat there and took the next shot  Huh
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #17 - Feb 13th, 2010 at 6:51am
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Flintlock wrote on Feb 13th, 2010 at 12:08am:
I once used my hornet to do a 75 meter head shot on a rabbit that was touching noses with another rabbit  and the second rabbit just sat there and took the next shot  Huh


I reckon if I was standing somewhere, talking to a mate, and his head just randomly exploded - I'd probably act the same way!
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #18 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 11:33am
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Well tried the Winchester Lasers and the CCI stingers,my rifle seems to like the CCI's. Wierd thing is @ 50m with the stingers zero'd the sub's drop about 4 inches - does that sound right?
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #19 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 1:14pm
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Yep - massive difference between the velocity & weight!

If you like stingers, you have to try CCi Quick-Shok on rabbits/hares!
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #20 - Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:41pm
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Well I just about decapitated a decent size hare with the stingers today. Though I'm having problems, possibly with my scope, it's a simple Nikko 4x32AO - it seems when the AO is changed the scope is going off by a decent amount - I think - I need to test it on a bench to be sure.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #21 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 7:15am
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Those hyper rounds can be very fussy too - accuracy wise they tend to suck a little on the bench but in real world where your shooting at guesstimate ranges they are great.
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #22 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 8:11am
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Vulcan wrote on Feb 16th, 2010 at 10:41pm:
Well I just about decapitated a decent size hare with the stingers today. Though I'm having problems, possibly with my scope, it's a simple Nikko 4x32AO - it seems when the AO is changed the scope is going off by a decent amount - I think - I need to test it on a bench to be sure.


That sort of thing is not that uncommon in cheaper scopes.  It's only a 4x and you only really need AO when you get above 9 power.  Just set it to whatever range you think is appropriate and leave it there.
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #23 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 8:13am
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In terms of HUNTING AMMOS, people often comment subs are more accurate than high velocity, but this is not necessarily the case on the range.

I do quite alot of rifle amd ammo testing and accuracy often comes down to production quality of the rounds rather than whether its sub or hv.

For example, the most accurate (non-match) 22 round I've used is the Aguila Superextra at 1280fps - extremely tight groups with few flyers. And with a recent batch of 22s tested, Fiocchi hv (blue packet - also made by Aguila at 1280fps) was best in 5 out of 6 of the rifles.

Yesterday I put four five shot groups through my jw15 shorty (15" barrel) at 50 meters to tweak the scope, and the Fiocchi hv AVERAGED 0.59" group - now that is VERY good hunting ammo. The subs I used did not quite match this.

All match/target 22 ammo is subsonic and is of higher production quality. But for day-to-day hunting ammos it is not a fixed rule that subs are more accurate. Will come down to quality of the round. And what different rifles will like.

The hyper ammo I've tested had half the drop at 100m but half the accuracy.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #24 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:33am
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The CCI's were pulling cloverleafs for me (almost tack driving on top of each other) happily at 50m, and I'm not a well disciplined shot.

I believe the sub's are more accurate comes from standard velocity which become inaccurate as they go transonic (ie start supersonic, go transsonic, fall into subsonic).

So as long as the bullet stays supersonic the accuracy should be as good for hypers.

MassiveAttack yeah I figured on leaving it at a certain setting. Though I must say there is a visibile focus difference between 25/50/100m. I like that wee scope, it's perfect for bunny busting @ 4x32, and it has 'mil-dots', well they're not really mil... but you can use them for rough range finding. Each dot space is ~10cm @ 25m, or ~20cm @ 50m. 1 dot = a bunny @ 50m'ish, 2 dots = bunny @ 25m'ish. I have bad depth perception so it's a huge help for me.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #25 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 10:29am
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Yes - am aware of the transonic wobble issue with supersonic ammo.  But in testing lots of ammos in various rifles, its often the quality of particular brands thats more important than sub/super speed in determining accuracy.

There really is a big variation in ammo standards between brands. And as you've done - you need to find that one or two types that will perform best in your own rifle.

And the transonic question, while sounding impressive, is not quite as important in practice as people think. I use lots of match/target ammos on my em332 and it consistently shoots under 1" groups at 100m, quite often shoots 0.5" groups, and has a best of 0.4".  But within that, while subs have a best of 0.4", the Aguila supersonic also has a best of just 0.5" at 100m. Very little in it.

I still go for high quality subs for max accuracy, but I'm very mindful that high quality supersonic can be extremely accurate - if you do the time experimenting, and find the stuff that suits your rifle.

Have range tested some of the cheap trademe stuff lately and it was poor in both sub and supersonic. An odd extremely good group but that's not what you judge. It is consistent grouping - something you can expect to repeat every time that matters - and some of the very cheap stuff varied hugely. As always though - you never know what your rifle will like.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #26 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:38am
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Vulcan wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 9:33am:
MassiveAttack yeah I figured on leaving it at a certain setting. Though I must say there is a visibile focus difference between 25/50/100m. I like that wee scope, it's perfect for bunny busting @ 4x32, and it has 'mil-dots', well they're not really mil... but you can use them for rough range finding. Each dot space is ~10cm @ 25m, or ~20cm @ 50m. 1 dot = a bunny @ 50m'ish, 2 dots = bunny @ 25m'ish. I have bad depth perception so it's a huge help for me.


Can you just the focus on the ocular lens to focus it instead?

I have two four powers (non AO like most of them) and once I have focused the reticle for my eyesight I just leave it.  It's focused from about 5 meters to infinity.

The fixed six I have is focused from about 20m to infinity.  The bigger the power of the scope the smaller the focus depth.  Everything in optics is a compromise.

The shifting POI issue comes down to badly machines threads that cause the lenses to move.  It used to be a huge issue, less so these days but it can still cause problems in the cheaper scopes.  They all move, it's just that the better machined ones don't move enough to notice.
  

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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #27 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:39am
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Any tips on getting stingers to extract? Had the same problem with CCI sub's in my 22. In the end had to fire the round into a bank of dirt.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #28 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:42am
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MassiveAttack wrote on Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:38am:
The shifting POI issue comes down to badly machines threads that cause the lenses to move.  It used to be a huge issue, less so these days but it can still cause problems in the cheaper scopes.  They all move, it's just that the better machined ones don't move enough to notice.


I think it's more than that, I was on "15" (supposedly m) for 50m, went to do some 25m groups. The grouping was perfect, but the focus was out slightly so adjust the objection down to 10 - then the shots were out by 4" (45 degrees down to the right).

Tonight I'll check it on a boresighter (one of those Nikko collinator types). I figure of the sight is spiralling it'll show when looking at that and changed the objective.
  
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Re: Sub's or Super's?
Reply #29 - Feb 17th, 2010 at 12:29pm
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Kickstart wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 1:14pm:
Yep - massive difference between the velocity & weight!

If you like stingers, you have to try CCi Quick-Shok on rabbits/hares!

I went into GC 2 weeks ago to pick up some quick-shok to try on wallabies and was told by the dude at the counter that they don't stock it as they can't sell the stuff?  I now see they have it on their website.

Is it any good?  I just want it for when I stumble across a wallaby on my rabbit trips..
  
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