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Very Hot Topic (More than 100 Replies) 308 Subsonic (Read 28677 times)
MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #15 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:47pm
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Took the Ruger out for the first time during the weekend for a sight-in and try out with Winchester, Highland and Barnaul ammo and they all did one-inch groups at 100 meters. My ordered dies havn't arrived so I'm unable to load up some sub-sonics until then.
Soon as they do arrive, I'll get stuck into it.

Gave up on the mildot or ballistic plex scope. I found I'm more comfortable with what I know so a 4x32 is doing the work.

Thanks for all the links and comments guys, appreciated

Back soon
  
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scroat
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #16 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:50pm
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i have just read all this and would like to add------ make a call to mark bridgeman at custom cartridges taupo ------------- he has a lot to with this and has specific professional programs that predict and give loads---not sure if this post is out off line but he knows his   ...shit. Smiley
  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #17 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 8:57pm
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Thanks scroat, had a chat with Mark a few weeks back, on the phone.  An interesting conversation about subsonics, suppressors, powders and lead projectiles.
  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #18 - Mar 3rd, 2008 at 10:45pm
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While I've been waiting to get out again and try some subsonics through the chronograph I thought I would check my Lee powder dipper set and see how it compares with Trailboss powder. Of course it dosn't as this powder isn't listed on the powder chart for my set. I got it from Reloaders about six months ago so it isn't that old. Had a look on the net and couldn't find anything there so decided to weigh the dipper charges myself with a Lyman beam scale.
Here's what I got.

dipper cc           grains of Trailboss

. 3                    1.2
. 5                    1.8
. 7                    2.8
1.0                   4.2
1.3                   6.4
1.6                   7.4
1.9                   9.0
2.2                  10.3........2/3 of case, up to start of neck taper
2.5                  11.5
2.8                  12.6........full case up to start of neck taper

Didn't go any further as I would be looking at compressed loads with the next sized dipper. Gives me something to work with as I develope a reliable subsonic load for the .308
Of course, don't take these charges as gospel, I could have made mistakes.

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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #19 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 12:07am
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My Classic Lee Loader arrived finally. Don't laugh, I like the simplicity and I'm not going to be doing huge runs of ammo.

Loaded up some test rounds using 165 grain round nose copper coated bullets by H&N

1.6cc, 1.9cc and the 2.2cc Lee dippers were used for three loads of Trailboss and while I was there I did some using 1.0cc of AS30N ( 6.7 grains )

Hope to get out soon to try these through the chrony
  
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Go Green
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #20 - Mar 18th, 2008 at 9:44am
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I to have been looking round to find data and although there is some it's fairly thin on the ground,I did come across this though,

Youth Reloading Data, Hodgdon Powder Co., Inc., The Brand That's True, Smokeless powder for reloading, and Pyrodex

and this

The Cast Bullet Association

might throw some light on the matter, (you'll have to cut n paste though, still don't know how to send a link..!
cheers
  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #21 - Mar 27th, 2008 at 11:49pm
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Thanks for that Go Green and Hi


I finally got out this morning for a shoot with the subsonic loads. Got the chrony set up for the first time as well. I'll keep it simple, here are the results

Remember these are all with 165 grain plated bullets

First batch with AS30N powder (same as Clays), 6.7 grains
1102 fps
1075 fps
1099 fps
1073 fps
1104 fps
an average of 1090 fps, spread of 31 fps and one ragged hole, 2 and a half inches low at 25 yards

Second batch with 10.3 grains of Trailboss powder
1259 fps
1230 fps
1275 fps
1253 fps
1247 fps
average of 1253 fps and a 45 fps spread, one hole again this time 3 inches low

Third batch with 9.0 grains of Trailboss powder
1081 fps
1143 fps
1157 fps
1108 fps
1112 fps
average of 1120 fps and a 76 fps spread. one was a flyer but the rest still in the same hole

Fourth batch with 7.4 grains of Trailbos powder
1030 fps
1022 fps
1033 fps
1027 fps
1070 fps
average of 1036 fps and a spread of 48 fps BUT the last shot in this string, I screwed the suppressor on to try it out as there had been no sign of keyholing. That last shot had a slightly higher velocity due to the suppressor so if we subtract that last shot from the string, the 4 shot spread is only 11 fps making 7.4 grains of Trailboss, potentually the most accurate out of the four loads for a 165 grain plated bullet. Also 3 inches low.

I really want a slower speed, closer to 950, maybe 1000 fps for shooting with the suppressor so I need to try another few loads with a little less powder.
My father and nephew were shooting as well and said the 19 rounds fired without the suppressor, sounded like 22's. The suppressed shot was a tiny pop and a whack at the target.

The AS30N shotgun powder did well and didn't shoot as low. No fillers or wads, no dirty cases or ignition problems. I'll keep trying with this powder as well.

I'll have another go soon and will also try them at a greater distance.
  
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noelfj
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #22 - Mar 28th, 2008 at 9:26am
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I was there watching, what he means by the same hole is a group of about an inch, it was blowing a gale at the time but any of those loads would do for deer.
  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #23 - Apr 21st, 2008 at 10:51pm
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Last week I loaded up a few more rounds in preperation for a hunting trip. Using Trailboss powder I went down a dipper size to 1.3cc. I weighed the charge again and found it was slightly heavier, 6.9 grains, not 6.4. Could be temperature and humidity causing the difference.
The hunting wasn't a success although it was a great weekend away.
Had a chance to shoot some of these lower charge loads at just under 100 yards. I was firing offhand over a log so the group was out to 4 inches but was consistant with all the literature and trajectory tables I have; being 18 inches low at that range.
The recoil was a subtle nudge, a ringing kind of POP from the rifle and a split second pause before the bullet smacked the log target. There was no keyholing and all rounds fed nicely from the magazine.
I hope to put these loads through the chrony sometime soon.

cheers
  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #24 - Apr 23rd, 2008 at 11:41pm
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I like these lead plated bullets by H&N. They're a tapered round nose of 165 grains, slightly orange in colour, not your normal copper colour. Being copper coated, not jacketed, means they are softer than a jacketed bullet yet firmer than normal lead and of course, there will not be a leading problem.
I also like the price so went back to Serious Shooters and brought their last stock of this line. Unfortunatly they won't be bringing in this bullet again.
Reloader Supplies sell Berry's Prefered Plated bullets and they do a 150 grain tapered flat nose, intended for the 30/30 and of course any other 30 caliber. Trouble is, they have to order them in and this is a drawn out exercise. These lighter projectiles are also plated and very cheap so I have ordered a box (come in 1000's). The lighter 150 and 165 grain bullets should still do the business on goats and small deer and with the right bullet placement, take reds well out past 100 yards.
Remember, it's not the energy or velocity that counts with subsonics, it's the ability to actually hit the target, a vital organ, that matters.

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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #25 - May 6th, 2008 at 10:03pm
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I had a chance to put those recently loaded rounds through the chronograph today, the same ones I tried on the last bush trip. Here's what I got.

With Trailboss powder, 6.9 grains (1.3cc dipper) 165 gn projectile

834 fps average with a spread of 78 fps


With ADI AS30N powder, 5.6 grains (.7cc dipper) 165 gn projectile

821 fps average with a spread of 69 fps


To slow....... I want closer to 950 fps before I settle on a load with these bullets.
There's not much in it, between the 1.6cc and 1.3cc dippers for Trailboss powder. Same story with the AS30N powder, somewhere between .7 and 1.0cc.

I'll take another look at powder weights and try again soon.

No ignition problems, clean cases and a clean bore.

cheers


  
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #26 - May 6th, 2008 at 11:09pm
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Pulled out some paper, pencil and a ruler then made up a simple graph, plotting the powder weights and velocities above.
With that I came up with powder charges for an optimun 960fps,

Trailboss....7.2 grains

AS30N........6.1 grains

Probably to simple to be scientific but it's a starting point.

I'll be back
  
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #27 - May 7th, 2008 at 10:15pm
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Hello there
I have had a bit of experience with center fires shooting subsonic loads.
i have got a fully surpressed .308 and have shot various kinds of sonic and sub sonic loads through it.
The whole idea of course was for hunting but i found that the subsonic loads just punched through the deer with no effect other then wounding them. The sonic loads killed great  but were as loud as a .22rimfire magum  so not exactly silent. Accuracy with subsonic loads was fine and I had no problems stabilizing bullets. I used a dacron filler to prevent detonation, which could be a problem, using 10gr of fast burning powder in a relativley large .308 case.
In the end i kinda not really bothered with it anymore as the subsonic .308 loads were so lame on game that you would be better off ear shooting deer at close range with a silenced .22LR firing solids.
  

If it takes only one careless match to start a bush fire, how come it takes me a whole box to start a camp fire.
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MarkJ
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #28 - May 7th, 2008 at 11:42pm
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Thanks, your comments kind of qualify my earlier thoughts on getting a 44 caliber dedicated and silenced rifle. Yes the 30 caliber bullets will lack the ability to damage tissue and let blood run, even though there is no problem penetrating a deer. This is why I have gradualy reduced my persieved operational hunting range with a 308 subsonic. It was 200 yards, now it's 100. To be effective, I'll need a vital organ hit like the brain, spine or heart so succsessful shooting will be totaly reliant on my ability to hit these targets offhand.
I understand the bigger projectiles like the 44, 45 and especially the 50 caliber subsonics, don't have the same minimal damage problems as the 308, simply because of their greater frontal area which leaves a larger wound channel. Similer to an archers hunting arrow.
Of course the beauty of a 308 is the ability to reload with standard ammunition and revert to a conventional hunting rifle.
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Re: 308 Subsonic
Reply #29 - May 15th, 2008 at 10:30pm
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MarkJ wrote on Apr 23rd, 2008 at 11:41pm:
I like these lead plated bullets by H&N. They're a tapered round nose of 165 grains, slightly orange in colour, not your normal copper colour.


Hi,

where do get those bullets from? I saw some copper plated lead bullet in pistol cal. but not .308 cal.

Cheers.
  
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