Fishnhunt New Zealands main hunting and Fishing Forum. millions of posts on fishing and hunting, dogs, 4x4 vehicles, outdoors and much more Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 30 Replies) Rifle powder storage. (Read 25897 times)
Bryce
Ex Member
*



Gender: Male
Rifle powder storage.
Aug 19th, 2007 at 8:03pm
Print Post  
Public service announcement for those that may not be aware.  Smiley

Since we were moving house a while back and I was setting up a loading/gunroom area in the basement garage I figured I should check up on the requirements for powder storage, more so since I had about 20lbs and a few thousand primers as well.

It appears that the law requires that all powder is stored in a locked shed that is seperate from the actual dwelling.  I didn't see any reference to how far from a dwelling or whatever, just that it be in a different building and not in the house.

That wasn't going to work out so well so I checked with the insurance company.  They said that it was fine to have powder in the garage that was attached to the house so long as it was under some form of lock and key so it wasn't immediately accessible by kids or whatever.  They noted on our policy that I said I would have up to whatever the quantity was that I stated, something like 10 - 15kg or something.  Can't figure why the insurance would have no issue but there you go.

If you are forced to keep powder in the house it might pay to check with your insurers, most wives would be pretty gutted if an insurance company didn't pay out on a house fire claim because her loving husband had 5 tins of powder in the spare room with his loading gear !!
  
A Hunter's paradise is on our doorstep.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mick hunter
Donor Member
*****
Offline


MMMMMMM CanadiAn

Posts: 4236
Location: Te Awamutu
Joined: Nov 9th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2007 at 7:50am
Print Post  
Thanks for that. Dont want to be giving insurance companies a reason not to pay out
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steveh054
Forum Senior
****
Offline


Rugers are Shit

Posts: 726
Location: Tuatapere - Southland
Joined: Jan 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2007 at 12:56am
Print Post  
I was told by the cops it was illegal to store in the house, which of course negates any Insurance claims. I store mine in the garage in an old fridge which is also locked. The fridge, being insulated helps to keep powder at a constant temperature which is all good and folows manufacturers recomendations.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Yorkshire
Forum Font
*****
Offline


So much hunting to do,
so little time.

Posts: 2907
Location: Mosgiel
Joined: Jan 27th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #3 - Aug 28th, 2007 at 12:59am
Print Post  
This is interesting as I would have thought as long as stored appropriatley and secured it should be fine..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bryce
Ex Member
*



Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #4 - Aug 28th, 2007 at 2:25am
Print Post  
Steve,

Are you meaning a seperate garage or an internal access garage ?

If the grage is a different building to the house then that is fine, if it is attached to the house I think it still isn't theoretically correct.

I ran into a lot of problems trying to track down the exact details of what was required and never did satisfy myself that an internal access garage was suitable in the eyes of the law.  Like I said, I told the insurance company exactly what the situation was and even that I had doubts about the legal aspects and they said it was fine.  I am not sure what the insurers stand would be in case oif a fire if I had not told them about it !!

Like I said to the insurers, it is less of a danger/concern that a drum of outboard motor or lawnmower petrol and who doesn't have that in an internal accessed garage ??
  
A Hunter's paradise is on our doorstep.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
steveh054
Forum Senior
****
Offline


Rugers are Shit

Posts: 726
Location: Tuatapere - Southland
Joined: Jan 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #5 - Aug 28th, 2007 at 10:35pm
Print Post  
My garage is a seperate building. However as always these things tend to be a grey area so I rang my insurance company and they didn't know but would get back to me so I will keep you updated.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yawn
Ex Member


Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #6 - Aug 28th, 2007 at 11:36pm
Print Post  
I raised this with FMG about 3 weeks ago during  review. They had no problem with gun powder properly stored  in an internal access garrage. Nor did the cop who did my lic renewal last week.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bryce
Ex Member
*



Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2007 at 12:51am
Print Post  
I did some digging to pull up the relevant information.

" Where table 7 in Schedule 2 requires a substance to be secured under lock and key, that substance may merely be secured in a container used only to secure class 1 substances so that a person cannot gain access to the substance without tools, keys, or any other device used for operating locks, provided that the container is located separate from any dwelling. "

Note the last part about being separate from a dwelling.   (I never did get a hard and fast answer from anybody as to whether an internal accessed basement garage is regarded as separate from a dwelling).

The above applies to smokeless powder in quantities of less than 15kg and when not for sale.  Basically a guy at home with powder for his own use.  I blieve that black powder tops out at 2.5kg !! ??

Go to Part 3 of section 23 of ......

Hazardous Substances (Classes 1 to 5 Controls) Regulations 2001

After having entered the above regulation name in the search section of .........

http://www.legislation.co.nz/browse_vw.asp?content-set=pal_regs
  
A Hunter's paradise is on our doorstep.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Rhys
Forum Font
*****
Offline



Posts: 2560
Location: North end of the South I.
Joined: Dec 29th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2007 at 4:12am
Print Post  
.243Hunter wrote on Aug 29th, 2007 at 12:51am:
The above applies to smokeless powder in quantities of less than 15kg and when not for sale.  Basically a guy at home with powder for his own use.  I blieve that black powder tops out at 2.5kg !! ??



Black powder is a lower order explosive, where the substace detonates with a propragation wavefront less than a defined limit when confined and ignited, a Higher order explosive (TNT, RDX et al) has a propragation wavefront over that limit.
Propellant powders as used for firearms burn when confined and ignited but don't detonate, which may be why the lower Black powder limit.

"detonate" and "explode" have limited legal meanings and strictly speaking as I understand it, nitro based gunpowder doesn't do eaither, it just burns at a very fast rate.
  

Of course I'm compensating. If I could kill stuff at 200 meters with my dick, I wouldn't need a gun.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tankd
Ex Member


Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2007 at 6:05am
Print Post  
I don't know about the legal definitions but for the ones I was taught( they are from a very poor memory)
  Detonate -is where you get a blast wave with a velocity in the region of 9000 mtrs per second which causes complete molecular distruction .
  Explosion -is where the blast wave has a velocity up to 3000mtrs per second being caused by a rapid burning producing large quantites of gas,the production of which create a blast wave.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
wildmann
Forum Font
*****
Offline


What?

Posts: 3966
Location: Dunedin
Joined: Nov 9th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #10 - Oct 2nd, 2007 at 1:54am
Print Post  
So as a young chap who can only afford 1 or 2 pounds at a time, storing that in the house is ok?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bryce
Ex Member
*



Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #11 - Oct 2nd, 2007 at 3:21am
Print Post  
As I understand it no powder in the house is really acceptable, not at least according to the regulations.  The insurance people might see it differently.  I'd guess it would come down to common sense, if you stored it by an open fire and had an accident it might take some explaining !!
  
A Hunter's paradise is on our doorstep.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AgentMi6
Ex Member


Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #12 - Dec 5th, 2007 at 9:18am
Print Post  
I questioned my insurance company about this, They took 1 day to get back to me as they where not really familure with this type of enquirey. I am with a larger insurance company too! Wont give out who. Anyhow... they where happy with my precautions, Ie.. Garage, not attached to main dwelling. After 15 minutes explaining to them what it is... hehe and the quintity and its burning nature they where quite satisfied. I compaired it to somone having 4 5L petrol cans filled with all sorts of mixtures and that the fire risk was the same.. and since it is not compressed or confined the resualt will be just a very very fast burn resulting on high preasure... blown out windows, bit of fire etc... nothing too different to when petrol ignights in a confined space. They have noted it on my record (What ever that means)?.

I asked the lady if I was now at a disadvantage because I declared it. She said, not at all, it just means that you are taking some very smart moves.. and it acually was +1 to me.

So what this means is that they know I have 500grams onsite, no more at any one time, and it is not stored in the dwelling. And it is used for recrational usage only. If it was comercial its a different story.. they charge you more in insurance, and also if it did cause major damage to your home you would not be covered etc..

Hope this helps.

If in doubt, Ask your insurance company, And only then they may not know how to answer your question Tongue Hehe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bryce
Ex Member
*



Gender: Male
Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 1:23am
Print Post  
The "not attached to the main dwelling" is the clincher.   That is what the regulations require so the insurance really have nothing to argue with.

In my case I have the maximu allowable 15kg in the basement garage so it was a case of the insurers seeing common sense even though I told them the regulations say it has to be a seperate building to the dwelling.  There would be a lot of people these days that just don't have a sepearate building and if they did it would put the powder closer to the neighbours house than their own.

You are right though, better to tell your insurers and be certain of your situation.

Bryce
  
A Hunter's paradise is on our doorstep.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Aquila
Ex Member


Re: Rifle powder storage.
Reply #14 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 10:40am
Print Post  
.243Hunter wrote on Dec 6th, 2007 at 1:23am:
There would be a lot of people these days that just don't have a sepearate building and if they did it would put the powder closer to the neighbours house than their own.

Bryce


I don't like the neighbour on that side anyway.....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Send TopicPrint
 

FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 » Powered by YaBB 2.6.11!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2017. All Rights Reserved.
Site Design By Alan Simmons - PRism and all rights are reserved from 1995 and onwards